Overcoming Depression and Bankruptcy with Former NBA Player Jumaine Jones

[00:00:00] John Boruk: All right. Thank you for joining us on the podcast that focuses on the ever changing world of youth, sports and athletics, how we can do it a little bit better for everybody involved. I'm your host, John Bowick. Thanks for being with us. We'd love it. As always, if you could subscribe to us on the podcast, you'll be notified every week when a new podcast is posted.

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Quite the resume of professional basketball. He grew up in the small town of Camilla, Georgia. He was a Parade magazine, all American basketball player. He then went on to play at the University of Georgia where he became the SEC's leading score in his sophomore season. After two years, he then declared for the [00:01:00] 1999 NBA draft where he was selected by the Atlanta Hawks with the 20.

Overall picking that first round, he was then immediately dealt to the Philadelphia 70 Sixers, helping them advance to the Eastern Conference finals and the NBA finals in 2001. And now he's the author with his book, last Man Standing Behind the Game. Jermaine Jones, thanks for coming in, doing the podcast.

Appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Yeah, absolutely. I, to have a 16 year professional basketball career is pretty impressive. When it comes to you, you gotta dig a little bit deeper and I did. Not only did you play for six NBA teams, Naples, Italy, Beirut, Lebanon, Russia, Puerto Rico, Italy, back to Israel, Puerto Rico, Bulgaria, and then Mexico for two teams.

That tells you that you love the game of basketball and you were willing to do whatever you had to do to stay in.

[00:01:54] Jumaine Jones: Absolutely.  You've been playing the game since since I've [00:02:00] been 11 years old. A lot of people not really feel good about traveling overseas, but when you love the game the way I do I'm willing to go anywhere and take whatever risk it is just to do it.

[00:02:14] John Boruk: Yeah, absolutely. And that's a lot of sightseeing, a lot exploring the world and seeing places a lot of people wouldn't get the opportunities to. Did you really embrace that? Obviously your main goal was the NBA. But look you took whatever was available at the time.

[00:02:34] Jumaine Jones: It was a great experience because I like different, I always like anything different and to be able to go somewhere and experience different cultures and you really learn a lot about yourself, to be honest. Cause you really, in a c that's not your own, you go into places that don't have the regular snacks that you normally have and the food that you normally.

But it was a great experience that I, [00:03:00] really enjoyed. And also to be able to get the opportunity to have my kids travel. Travel with me to be able to go over and speak fluent Italian and, experience different food and, even to go to Jerusalem and, they tell me about things that they've seen and, in the book, really sends chill through my body to know that I gave them that opportunity to be able to experience that.

[00:03:23] John Boruk: Yeah, we're gonna get into a lot of things. We're gonna get into your childhood. We're gonna get into obviously playing high school. Where you were, a Parade all American, in college, professionals all of those things. But I think like a lot of professional athletes, you've had a lot of roller coasters.

It's been a rollercoaster ride your life, peaks and valleys and you see the stories, but let's go back to the beginning, right? Camilla, Georgia, what it was like growing up in a town of about, what, 5,000? Single parent lived with your mom?

[00:03:55] Jumaine Jones: Yeah. , if that it was tough, [00:04:00] man. And it's actually in the book because it's some things that I'm originally from Cocoa Florida.

A lot of people don't know that. I transitioned from Cocoa Florida because a lot of things that's in the book if you go out and get it. Yeah. That I discuss in there the reason why my mother chose. Have me move to Camilla, Georgia, which I lived with her sister at that time, to be able to get a better opportunity in life and have better chance to be able to be that successful person that she knew I can be.

To be able to go to Camilla, which was it was a tough transition when you come from beaches and sun and, surfing and stuff like that. And then, if somebody asked me where food came from, I would've say at the grocery store, but my aunt in Camilla, Georgia, lived on 48 acres of land.

So that alone was a different that was different for me. But the experience was great. [00:04:57] 

John Boruk: So what did you learn to plow the land or to get, [00:05:00] it was, did they, she have crops that you had to adjust, to being out there and to learn to cultivate. Cultivate the land, the soil.

[00:05:08] Jumaine Jones: It was, it was tough because, she had pecans, peanuts, watermelons can, loads, like anything that you can think of that grew out of the ground. She had she was on a farm and not only did we take care of our farm, we took care of other people's farm. One thing that we learned being home, and I tell parents this all the time, I was like, I worked so hard at home.

Like everything outside of the house came easy for me. So one of the things that I learned in Camilla, Georgia is how to work hard. . 

[00:05:40] John Boruk: Yeah, absolutely. And you have to have a foundation and really good parents, to help instill some of those values. And so that was present for you right at the time?

Absolutely. Your mom and your, you said your mom's sister?  

[00:05:59] Jumaine Jones: [00:06:00] Yes. Okay. Yeah, it was my mom's sister. And then growing up in the way that I came up wasn't a good neighborhood. It was a lot of, drug and faster neighborhood, a lot of shootings, a lot of things that was going on in Florida that, my mom wanted me to get away from.

And to be able to choose Camilla Georgia was probably the perfect thing for me to be able to succeed because, the atmosphere was a lot different. Not only, from neighborhoods, it was different. Far as my family the family in Florida was a bit little rough and rugged. Yeah. And my family in Camilla, Georgia was more they was gonna work hard and they was gonna be able to most of them went to school and done, did, had a lot of success.

And a lot of things. So it was easier for me to learn and see things as different and positive. 

[00:06:52] John Boruk: Yeah. Was your father present. 

[00:06:54] Jumaine Jones: at this time? My father was not present. 

[00:06:57] John Boruk: Okay. No. You see him, is he, [00:07:00] has he been part of your life? 

[00:07:01] Jumaine Jones: He hasn't been a part of my life. He popped up when I became a thriller from Camilla at the University of Georgia for a little while.

And I think we all know why . Yeah. But my high school coach was my father figure. Not only. Be able to get all the positive things that I got from being in Camilla, Georgia. I also was able to find a father figure that I can look up to and looked at as my father, but it, 

[00:07:30] John Boruk: It, what I find really inspiring is sometimes when you come up as a child and you, your learning life experiences and you really, you see these situations and you say you wanna go one or two ways.

Either you want to. That you want to emulate the people that bring you up or you wanna do the opposite. And I learned things from both my mother and my father. I said, I wanna be like this. Or I looked up my father who was married and divorced four times and said, I don't wanna be like [00:08:00] that.

Absolutely. And so you probably did a lot of the same things. 

[00:08:03] Jumaine Jones: Yeah, it's, it is funny you say that because a lot of my family was in and outta jail cause they were selling drugs and that was one of the things I said I would not do that because, when I was in school at a young age, they took us to.

To let us experience and talk with cellmates on telling us how, bad it was in there, how you didn't want to be there. So from at a very young age, for me, me going to jail is one thing that wasn't an option for me. And and going, moving to, in Camilla, Georgia just to be able to listen and take in so much positive from the cultures and.

It was really like living in the military. My aunt just one of those people that worked hard and if you and if you didn't do the things that you were supposed to do out in that field she was gonna let you know about it which is good. 

[00:08:52] John Boruk: So you took some of those life lessons and that in that work ethic that was instilled in you [00:09:00] and you decided that you were going to have a basketball career, if anybody doesn't know Jermaine Jones is what? 6, 8, 6 9? Yeah. So you've got the height to play the game and obviously you developed a skill set. Was there a pressure that maybe you applied to yourself to say, Hey, and you see this story a lot? Mom, I want to give you everything that you didn't have before.

I want to make it in the NBA and I'm gonna buy you that house or that car. And with that, I can see players that come from underprivileged communities and stuff put a lot of pressure on themselves because they want to give back to the people who were so important to them. 

[00:09:38] Jumaine Jones: It's funny for me, I didn't really see myself playing in the NBA at all. Okay. Coming from Cocoa Florida where I played in middle school basketball, none of my family showed up to the games and they could have walked to the games. I come from a huge family. I had 16 aunties and uncles and nobody came to my games. So when I [00:10:00] moved to Camilla, Georgia Like it was flooded with my family at the games.

They came out to support me. So for me, I put the pressure on myself, like what can I do to be able to get my family, get their attention to continue to come to the games? Cause I had never experienced that before. So for me, the pressure for me was to go in and work as hard as I can to get better every single day so that, they can keep coming to the game and to see how loud they were, the better I got.

The more I wanted to work hard cause I wanted to make them proud of me because I never had that opportunity to see, My family support me and be happy for me. 

[00:10:38] John Boruk: So you were just longing for their appreciation, you're working so hard to do this and you just, you really more than anything wanted their attention.

[00:10:47] Jumaine Jones: Yeah. You think I'm real big and ACEs, I'm not sure if you familiar about ACEs, but ACEs is a adverse childhood experiences and, I was giving up for adoption when I was younger [00:11:00] and my mom came back and got me a year later and then I come back. , had to witness my sister's dad come and get her every weekend.

So in my mind, being a young, younger person, I always thought like something was wrong with me. So to be able to finally get that attention and see people, wanting to, come support me like that was. Like the biggest thing for me ever to be able to continue that for people to come out and see me and support the things that I was doing.

Like you said, that was the pressure that I wanted to put on myself just so I could feel good to make someone else happy. And that's pretty much a gist of how I am now to do things just to, make people proud of 'em. It's really 

[00:11:43] John Boruk: Amazing when you stop and think, and you talked about coming, growing up in an area that was riddled with and guns and I'm sure homicides to, divulging and sharing what you did about your childhood, where you were put up for adoption, that people come out and actually have [00:12:00] success stories. That's what's right you guys, that, people that grow up in those sort of, whether it's inner city or wherever, have so much adversity that they're having to plow through.

I, I honestly think that sometimes as an entire society, we lack perspective, and that's why I like having you come on here to provide that perspective that people can't even comprehend of the things that you had to go through.  

[00:12:28] Jumaine Jones: Yeah and that's pretty much about. How my book goes because I know a lot of kids go up and see all the glitz and the glamor, but they don't understand a lot.

A lot of times anybody that's successful in anything has a story to tell. . And a lot of people are not ready to tell that story. And, I became to a point where I was ready to be able to go out. And speak on a lot of my experience before basketball, during basketball, and even after basketball because, all of it is a struggle.

And you gonna have to go through some [00:13:00] adversity. It's really about how you get up and continue on life. Yeah. 

[00:13:04] John Boruk: So you, you weren't anticipating that you were ever gonna play in theNBA No. No. Yeah. And so you sign on with an. I would thank in Georgia and they tell you, Hey, your stock is high.You just led the SCC in scoring. This is your go time. Is that, how is that how it all worked out? 

[00:13:25] Jumaine Jones: It was funny after my second year, a agent contacts me and actually a lot of agents was contacting me. Yeah, was contacting me and and they were just telling me how good I was.

But I was having so much fun in school. Like the University of Georgia campus was so fun. Going to the football games, was fun. I had no intentions on leaving school, but they had fired the coach. They fired my coach after my second year and brought in the coach by the name of Jim Harrick.

And I just wanted to see what kind of guy and [00:14:00] never in my mind I was thinking the lead for the…and he came in and we had, we sat down and we talked for a while and he was like I, he was like, Jermaine, are you gonna come back to school? And I said I'm gonna meet with my family and I'll let you know tomorrow.

In my mind, I was coming back to school. Yeah. And then he told me, he said, Jermaine, if you leave school right now, you'll be pumping gas in 10 years. And for me, like that's just something that you could never tell me because I always. Any kind of negativity that I've heard from people always used that as fuel to be able to, do better and prove people wrong.

And that's just something I always stood by, even from a younger kid. Like anybody that told me that you're not gonna make it, you're not gonna do that. I always used it as fuel. . And for him to tell me that from the minute that I walked out of that. I knew I was declaring for the draft. Okay. Just to prove him wrong.   

[00:14:54] John Boruk: Just to prove him wrong. Did you feel though, maybe after your rookie season or as [00:15:00] you got into it, the draft and first round pick and you get to see all the glitz, the glamor, the big lights that mentally, were you ready for all this? 

[00:15:11] Jumaine Jones: No one told me about how it was gonna be. Yeah, I'm just gonna say that. But I tell you like being drafted was probably the best day of my life and also the worst day of my life. Because there was a lot of things for me coming from a humble background and trusting so many people. Life changed really fast for me getting drafted getting to know people better, when money's involved.

So it was a lot that I went through being a 19 year old kid getting drafted in the NBA. And I come from a background where, None of my family, half my family dropped out in middle school and maybe a couple graduated high school and nobody really went off to college after that.

[00:15:54] John Boruk:  Yeah. So they didn't have a blueprint. They couldn't give you any guidance. You have to now figure it out all on your own [00:16:00] at 19 years old.

[00:16:01] Jumaine Jones: So just going through that process and trying to learn, and then I have a daughter on my own at that. . So I'm just learning. I'm step by step and I got three or four first cousins that's older than me, but we like Dumb and Dumber.Blind leading. Blind Leading The Blind. Blind. No. 

[00:16:21] John Boruk: Hey, it's completely understandable. That's one of my big things about the education system now. No matter where you go is we're not giving them the life skills that they're gonna take with them. Absolutely. When they get to be 20, 25, 30, right now, do we tell 'em how to prepare taxes?

Do we show them, how to do all these things, balance a checkbook, all the necessities that you need. Absolutely right. And so here, Talking with Jermaine Jones, the book Last Man Standing Behind the Game. You go to chapter four, I'm gonna read the first paragraph of chapter four, Title, dead, broke, Uhhuh.

My life didn't seem great at the time because I was facing financial problems to the point where I didn't have [00:17:00] any money at all. In my fourth year in the league. I was dead, broke, not a dime in my pocket. I'd given all my money away, everything. I kept spending lavishing, splurging, impressing people when I had abundance and a constant cash flow.

I didn't plan for my future because I was confident. That I would never go penniless. I learned that I was wrong. There's so much just to take away from that, that one paragraph number one is if you don't come from money, it's hard to have a concept of the value of money. Absolutely. And people don't understand.

They're like he signed this million multimillion dollar contract. How could he be? 

[00:17:39] Jumaine Jones: That's one of the things I really like to educate our youth on and I'll give this example all the time. Let's just say I had a million dollar. Uncle Sam gets half of that. Yep. Your NBA take 10% back for your retirement and then your agent get 4%.

So outta that $1 million you probably taking home [00:18:00] $360,000 out of that, which is still a lot of money. 

[00:18:04] John Boruk: trust me. I know but people only see the growths, they see the million. Absolutely. And if you, by the way I also know that if you're on the road and you're playing in California arenas or you're playing.

The states are gonna take that money too. By the time it dwindles down, it's not nearly as much. But being in the NBA and playing on a team with Allen Iverson. And Allen Iverson liked to showcase his money. With, with watches and cars. We all know Alan talk, talked about it. Was there always a feeling of trying to keep up with the Joneses, trying to show, hey, I, image, trying to display that image.

[00:18:44] Jumaine Jones: For me, I was never the jewelry guy. Everybody had their thing, Allen had his thing to have jewelry or suits or cars. For me, it was more of showing people a good time and seeing different, okay. I always wanted to take somebody outta a [00:19:00] area that they was comfortable in to take 'em to another area, to show 'em different, to show that there is another life, that's out there, because that's what basketball did.

It took me outta the environment where I, came from seeing so much and I thought that was the way life was until, you start trying to be a better person. And then, I started going to counseling, so I started learning a lot about my childhood. Which I found out. I wasn't so normal like the lifestyle that I was living wasn't a normal lifestyle. So just going through that that experience and that alone, I always wanted to just show people a good time. So most of the money I spent was traveling people and yeah, Every experience that I can give anybody, I wanted to do it.

 [00:19:51] John Boruk: You, you were sharing it even, even if you were indulging people just and being selfless. 

[00:19:56] Jumaine Jones: Yeah. For lack of a better word. You give and you [00:20:00] give and it's, and there's no more to give.  

[00:20:01] John Boruk: But yet the people that come to expect it are still asking.

They're saying, Hey, Jermaine, what happened with all the good? Hey, we want, let's go out. Let's have a good time. 

[00:20:12] Jumaine Jones: And that's when it comes tough, cause you know, it took. Until, I learned that, after four years I had nothing to show for anything, and then I couldn't go to anybody to ask for anything.

They didn't have it , they didn't have it. So all the money that I was given, it wasn't like they was doing anything to help themselves because I couldn't call them to be able to get anything. But after that fourth year, man, I learned to be able to say no, which was a process. Yes you lose a lot of friends, you lose a lot of people in your life just by saying no.

And. Which is to me, I thought was a great thing because you know who was there for you. I was gonna say the 

[00:20:54] John Boruk: Flip side of all that is it starts to sift its way through and you realize who the people [00:21:00] who are in your corner Absolutely. The people who you can turn to and you can talk to. Absolutely.

Because money's not the issue. 

[00:21:08] Jumaine Jones: Absolutely so that kinda leads me into a lot of the things that I do now work with this organization called EDO, which really gives me opportunity to dig into the financial situation, to talk with the rookies and second year players in the NBA. So to be able to get that opportunity. So a lot of things that I do now is really things that I experienced myself and what better person to educate someone than somebody. 

[00:21:34] John Boruk: I've got all that. I want to get into all that. What you. And how you educate because I think it's so important. It's so vital because people don't know what they don't know.(Absolutely.) In order to get to where you are now though, you went through a three year period after you were done with your professional basketball career. And I think, and I've seen this story so many times, play it with professional athletes is where do I go? What skillset do I have? And I'd [00:22:00] have to think that a lot of, cuz you went into a state of depression.

Yeah. Where you went, that dark place that you went, had to do with, now what do I do? 

[00:22:09] Jumaine Jones: Oh, it was dark. Like you said, it was three years. It was dark for me. And I was that person and my energy was always up. I'm laughing, I'm joking all the time. So during that process, like I didn't wanna be around anybody.

I didn't wanna bring that, bare energy around anybody. So I found myself being home, drinking and smoking every single day, just not having to face the fact that I had to find something else to. So it was dark anybody that's going through anything and I had to learn this spending that time alone is not something that you want.

So many thoughts go through your mind during that time. Luckily the NBA had a transitioning program. Somebody called me like, look, Jermaine, I think you might need to check out this program. And they was teaching us. How to write a resume. And I'm [00:23:00] sitting here what is that?

And it's crazy, people laugh, but like you just said, if you don't know, you just don't know. I've been playing basketball my whole life, so I never knew what a resume was. So to be able to go in there learn about resumes and go to all of these meetings that the NBA having and one of the things I learned, like everybody that's in the NBA that's working for 'em, none of 'em ever played basketball.

They just had a dream of, making a lot of money and wanted to play basketball and never did. So for me to be able to actually play the game of basketball and go into these meetings and understand that they have no clue what it is to be an athlete I found value in myself.

Yeah. To be able to educate them and also educate others that came around and also to be around guys like Vin Baker who actually told me something so simple that it really stuck with me. He was like, Jermaine, we part of 4,700 [00:24:00] people in the world that put on a uniform talk. 

[00:24:04] John Boruk: You you'd think of all the people.That's not very many people. That's a very exclusive community of people. And that's just people who've played one game in the nga. Just one, one game. Yeah. 

[00:24:13] Jumaine Jones: 4,700 people. And for him to tell me he was like, for us to be a part of that elite class. He was saying that it's in us. And when he told me it's in us he was like, that means it goes nowhere. So you just gotta apply that energy and your passion to find it somewhere else to put it. And to me, I always like to help people and the light went off and that's when I started doing work with the Sixers youth program. Put myself in different situations. I even went and got li my, my license to sell insurance.

And it was simply because I wanted to learn finances. And, prime is one thing, is a financial company, but insurance is one of the things that they sell and to teach [00:25:00] you about finances. I got bored with that really quick, but it was just the fact that, I went and wanted to learn more.

Financeer, just so I can break things down a little bit more from Sure. From a point of I've actually sat down and read about it. . 

[00:25:15] John Boruk: Yeah, absolutely. But what pulled you out of that dark side? How did you essentially how did you emerge from that and decide it's time to put on my boots? And was it counseling? What was it that finally got you? 

[00:25:33] Jumaine Jones: I've finding myself in a place where I wasn't a good friend anymore. I wasn't a good father, I wasn't a good husband. And I just wanted to be able to get out of the state of depression. Cause I figured, I was in a dark place and I started going to counseling.

And the first week that I went into counseling, It was weird because they kept asking me about my childhood and I was like, man, I'm not gonna get anything out [00:26:00] of this counseling session because they kept asking about my childhood. I'm like, how is that gonna help me outta my depression?

That he asked me about this. And the more I talked, the more I talked and the more that came out that I was understanding why I was the way I was in the certain things and why I treated things like I learned about, why it was so hard for me to be in relationships. Some things that went throughout my childhood that happened and learning more about myself.

Then I learned like I was using basketball as a coping. I had so much pain and anger in inside of me that I didn't even understand. It was an issue until basketball ended. I had no longer had that coping skill. It was therapeutic, wasn't it? It was so therapeutic. Everything that was going on in that court, I was able to like, and you could tell the way I dunked, like it was just so much anger inside of that dunk and just learning so much stuff about me.

That I didn't know was a issue in my childhood, and that's why I do a lot with the [00:27:00] youth today, to be able to try to open them up, to be able to have conversations, not to hold in a lot of things that you had as a kid because it's, it is big because I grew up in the household where my mom always told me, whatever go on in this house, stays in this house.

But then that's, A lot of stuff that's building up inside of me that I can't even have a conversation about. Yeah. Where you gonna go?

[00:27:20] John Boruk: Where Share who you gonna share that with?

[00:27:21] Jumaine Jones: Absolutely. So counseling was probably one of the best things that ever happened to me, and I helped a lot of professional athletes transition outta sport to let them know how much counseling helped me become, the person that I wanted to be.

And just going in there, off the initial, I wasn't okay with going to counseling. People always, think. Something gotta be wrong with you or you crazy and all that kind of stuff, man. But it really put me in a space that I really need to understand myself and that's what it did for me.

[00:27:54] John Boruk: You look around professional sports and there's so much pressure to perform, [00:28:00] especially pressure. Once you're injured to perform, because you know that if you're not out there on the court, on the ice, on the playing field, somebody's right behind you, they're gonna take your job. You gotta suck it up.

And I think, you look at these, you got professional teams, they've got nutritionist, they've got massage therapists, everything. Every single team needs to have a psychologist. Absolutely. That somebody can talk to. That's the one thing that I've said for long, like, why don't they have psych?

But they'll have a help line. That's somebody on the other end of a, who wants to talk to somebody on the end of a telephone when you can't see 'em. You don't know how personal the conversation, it's very distant. Feels very disconnected. 

[00:28:37] Jumaine Jones: And I think too and I talk, and I've talked to a couple organizations about this because a lot of guys that's you.

Working for an organization, and some organizations do have people that you can talk to, but the players are not really too open to have those conversations with somebody that's working with the team. Yeah. So I've [00:29:00] been having conversations about possibly having some, organizations come in that's outside of the organization, so players can feel more safe to be able to have those conversations because at the end of the day, you're still negotiating a contract with the organization and if somebody's in the organization that you can have those conversations with, guys don't really feel too safe about having those conversations with them.

 [00:29:22] John Boruk: So you pulled yourself out and you got it together and you realized, you got to the point says, I like to give back. I like to help. I like to help youth and kids. And so you started to get into it a little bit, and so let's elaborate. A non-profit organization beyond the hardwood Inca educating and empowering athletes and the community helping build self-esteem, raising mental health awareness.

Just talk about that nonprofit, what you've been able to. And how you've been able to, transform some of the lives of some of the youth. Maybe you got a good story or two to share. 

[00:29:58] Jumaine Jones: I just really [00:30:00] basically use my platform to be able to get out here and educate, cuz these kids need to understand it's a 1% chance of making the NBA and they also need to understand that.

I'm not telling them that just because I wanna scare them away from their dreams because I want kids to dream as big as they want to dream. And I like to give them those numbers. There's 3% chance you going gonna play in college. I even state a stat, there's 20 million youth athletes.

That 20 millions turns into 560,000. That 560,000 turns to what? Maybe 200,000. And that 200,000 turns into 450 NBA. Players. Players, yeah. And I try to educate them. And I also in the same sense, like if you really love whatever sport it is that you choose, there's other opportunities that surrounding the.

That makes a lot of money. I taught, have conversations with young [00:31:00] girls about, how much. The makeup artist that, that's putting makeup on. Charles and Shaq. Yeah. Making $200,000. Guys that you see in the game is rolling up the chords and all that. Making $200,000, mascots making six figures.

So I try to educate them and put things down on paper that they have a visual of things, because most. Most people learn more visually if they can see it and have it broke down. That's the way I try to educate our youth to be able to put it down on paper and let them see the numbers and see other opportunities that they can have other than sport.

And just use, use basketball as a path, use that as a path to be able to get where you really want to be at. Use it to get that free education. School's expensive. I'm pretty sure the parents would really appreciate, these kids going and dedicated, because these sports really teach you a lot about life.

[00:32:00] You gotta learn. Nothing's gonna be given to you.

[00:32:04] John Boruk: It's the truest form of meritocracy that we have now in our country to where the people who. The harder you work, the more you put into it, the more you're gonna get out. We don't get out. Absolutely. That's not necessarily the case with corporate America.

No. It's not the case with jobs. You guys know this, right? Absolutely. It's, you don't necessarily, those who work the hardest in corporate America are gonna be overlooked. But in sports, If you're the one that's out there and you're putting in the time, that's why I've always gravitated towards sports is because it's gonna separate those who want to excel for those who don't.

[00:32:41] Jumaine Jones: Absolutely. And the thing too, I always like to let people know whatever you invest your time in most is what you're gonna be good at. , what you have is passion for is what you're gonna be good at. Whatever it is that you you're, you invest in most of your time at, and [00:33:00] you take seriously, you gonna be, you gonna be great at it no matter what that is.

And I'm, a lot of the kids don't like to hear this, but I was like, man, if you go to the library and spend two, three hours a. Out of a week, man, you gonna be pretty good in school. Yeah. You gonna be, you gonna be really good at it. I talk about how much time I spent in the gym growing up.

I was in the gym in the summertime, like I was in there in the morning and, before the street lights come on, I was getting out of the gym. So I invested a lot of time in that. And percentages you. And even in the black communities, I go into, into depth about that there was so many jobs that was open that we wasn't qualified for.

. And the reason being, because we have so many people that's telling kids about going to be this professional athlete when they only have what, 30 jobs, that's guaranteed [00:34:00] every year. 30 jobs that's open. So you got millions of kids that's out here fighting to try to be a part of a job. There's only 30 that's guaranteed.

[00:34:10] John Boruk: The problem is that when you don't become one of those 30, then where do you go? Where do you go from there?  

[00:34:15] Jumaine Jones: That's and that's where mental health issues come in because a lot of people come become depressed after that because everybody's telling them, they've been so good at this and this and that, but nobody's educating them on what else you gonna do if you don't make. And these are the conversations that need to be said. And I think it's more one of my priorities to be one of those people to be able to get out and speak on it. 

[00:34:40] John Boruk: Yeah. A lot of people had to change the way that they've done business or find, when once COVID hit back in March of 2020.

You were the same way, right? You needed to pivot away from whatever you were doing, do something else [00:35:00] and then you re you launched the outreach program, mindful Sports and Performance, correct? Yeah. Tell me a little bit about that.  

[00:35:07] Jumaine Jones: It was, it is funny like you said, everybody had to transition to do something else. And me, I was just sitting in and, my partner at the time was a therapist and I was sitting there thinking like I wanted, I always wanted to do a dinner. I always wanted to do a dinner. And she was like, do a dinner. I was like, yeah, but make it informative. Make it where we can give out a whole bunch of information.

And she's what is it that you want to do? I say I really want to be able to get out and educate a lot of professional athletes on my transition and how it was, cause I'm ready to speak out on it. . So the first thing that I came up with was, let's do a gala. And the first one I did was during the pandemic and everybody wanted to come out, everybody had been in [00:36:00] the house and all that kind of stuff.

So we did whatever we could do to try to make it safe for people to come out. And we probably had probably. 250 people that showed up. Oh, that's a good number. Yeah. And I actually just went in my phone and they was just going in my phone hitting up all the athletes that was in it and was like look, this is what I'm doing.

And for me to be able to get so much support, guys like Lamar Odom, Shaquille O'Neal, Dennis Scott, Otis Nixon it was so many other guys that showed up and came out in support. It was amazing. And then, after I spoke on, my transition, man, so many guys came to me, wanted to gimme a hug, and was in tears.

Was like, man, man, I've been going through this, my, my like ever since I retired guys, like Steve Francis was like in tears. Oh, and Steve Francis was, yeah. And he was like, man, like this is powerful. He was [00:37:00] like, man, I'm glad that you was able to open and get up. He was like, man, you really just challenged me to be able to be more open and have these convers.

That you're having right now. So the feedback, just the feedback I was getting from the athletes had me where I can't stop doing it now because a lot of people need to hear it. And even guys that's not ready to be able to speak out, just to be able to hear other athletes speak out on, on, on their transition, just to let other athletes know they're not in it.

And they can get help and there is a safe space that you can have those conversations. Because I was one of those guys that didn't have that space to be able to have conversations just off of, my mom telling me that, Everything goes on in this house, stays in this house. And that's just something that stuck with me.

And it wasn't until I went to counseling to be able to understand like there is an outlet and for me to be able to have these conversations. And once I got it out, I wanted to spread it. 

[00:37:56] John Boruk: Sure. But is that prevalent in the black [00:38:00] community? Where you needed to be mental in order to be mentally tough.

You can't share your problems, you can't be vocal, you can't express that because it's seen as a sign of weakness. 

[00:38:13] Jumaine Jones: Yeah, definitely in the black community. Okay. There's a lot of things that. In the black community, you just can't be, especially growing up in the neighborhood, like we had a neighborhood that we called Vietnam and there was a reason we called it Vietnam cause there was a lot of shootings going on, a lot of violence that's going on.

So we can't come in and be vulnerable and be able to tell how we truly feel about things because it's looked at as soft is the word that they use. And you didn't want to grow up in the neighborhood and have that on you because you know that'll be something you have to fight every day.

Cause people think that. Soft quote . 

[00:38:48] John Boruk: Yeah. Yeah. And, but that's, that, that was the mindset. And you see that and I think that was essentially [00:39:00] how we viewed sports and athletes. If you played one of those rugged sports football, you, they, you didn't want to discuss it. It had to be internalized.

 [00:39:09] Jumaine Jones: And you can't. Yeah. And that, that's a showing of emotion that, 

[00:39:15] John Boruk: and that's something that I read, is that you now tell people and you tell 

[00:39:19] Jumaine Jones: kids it's okay. It's all right to cry, I cry all the time. And, I feel a lot better after that . Yeah. You know what I mean? And just something, we just gotta change the conversation. And I'm just one of those people just want to be a pioneer for our communities and just show people different, just speaking my story and the experiences that I have. 

[00:39:42] John Boruk: But there's a lot of stories like this. Absolutely. And every sport, football basketball, baseball, you go and you talk to athletes and they share a lot of this.

I do worry. I will say, I do worry about pro athletes coming out of it. They haven't saved for [00:40:00] retirement. They've got the cars and all this, but that's, once you learn about finances, those aren't smart investments. No, not at all. And it's hard. I was, like I said, I was in broadcasting for 25 years.

You step out of that limelight where you're used to having the attention. That's a tough transition. 

[00:40:21] Jumaine Jones: It is. It's, it is a very tough transition, especially I tell people the transition I had, just the fact that, the phone doesn't ring as much, you don't get as many call callbacks as you usually was getting when you were playing in the NBA.

So it gets dark. And I'm not saying every situation is that way. I only can speak on my experiences and be able to share. With people and you'll be amazed at how many times I've had a conversation with people that's been in the athletic space that open up and start talking about [00:41:00] experiences that they've had that they've never told anybody.

So just for me to be able to get out and do that and get as much information as I get from people. Let’s me know, like people was actually just waiting to hear something from somebody so that they can open up and finally have a conversation. 

[00:41:15] John Boruk: Yeah. So how's your mother now? How's the family?

 [00:41:19] Jumaine Jones: Family's good. Family's good now. For me to be able to be as open as I am to have these conversations a lot of things that was on me I was able to have with my mother, have with my. So that they can understand. And a lot of stuff that's in the book, even my family's man, I didn't know all that was going on, and I was like, what? I say you know how it was growing up, we couldn't have a conversation about it. And even when I got older, growing up around, family members, man, anything you told them, they told everybody else. So for me it was always me not being able to have that conversation with people.

And that can be [00:42:00] tough. You. Not to trust people and then they set things, up for us and not to trust. Yes. You know what I mean?  

[00:42:07] John Boruk: Yes. Yeah. That's part of the problem, because when you have a small, or you have, you're just in the in, in the time that we've been talking, who do you trust?

Because you didn't have the family members come out to your game, so they weren't supporting you, you were told to be close minded. So that sort of dialogue didn't exist. That's that, and that's really I would think now when you talk to kids, is Lean on somebody, trust somebody and that's hard.

It's tough because that community doesn't exist. That those avenues everything that you've done and your work and your nonprofits and everything that you've put out there now to where you to give back, lot of it just doesn't exist.   

[00:42:55] Jumaine Jones: No. It exists now.

I think things are getting. [00:43:00] We just gotta get more people on board to be able to provide, these opportunities and people to get out and talk more about it. That's experienced it. And, a lot of kids now, they look up to athletes and who's better to come in and have these conversations to be able to direct them in a path and tell them experience.

Cause they look at us, like we have no flaws and that we never experienced anything. I had my nephew tell me Probably three, four years ago, he told me I wasn't like the rest of the family and I couldn't understand it because I was sitting there thinking, I was like, you know what?

He would think that because he only seen the finished product of me. He didn't understand everything that I went through and I was like, you do know me and your mom is from the same neighborhood, . 

[00:43:53] John Boruk: But once you start telling people this and the book, Last Man Standing: Behind the Game [00:44:00] information that you're, that even family members are saying, I didn't even know this about you.

To me, that inspires hope because Absolutely. If they see that you. Flaws and you have chinks in your armor and that you're not, we all have, we all have our blemishes and stuff. That's the inspiration. 

[00:44:19] Jumaine Jones: Absolutely. Even as adult, not just kids, people want to hear stories, you know what, man, I've been going through this and I've done this and I've doing, it's you know what, man, Jermaine's story inspired.

That's giving me hope. So even if I'm in a tough spot right now, it's only momentarily because so many stories that, that's in this book right here it can be inspiring and give people hope. Yeah. Cause a lot of times, I'm open to going into detention centers and a lot of things that people may have been in trouble and feel like you know what, man, I've been in trouble and I've been in trouble, I've been in trouble.

And being able to see [00:45:00] other ways and be able to do better and provide those spaces. Cause I've experienced noon. 

[00:45:06] John Boruk: I like to have seen how you were, 20 years ago because to see how, hear how candid you are now and. Revealing and personable. You are now. It, I'm sure it's, it was like night and day.

 [00:45:19] Jumaine Jones: Yeah, it's definitely night and day definitely like night and day, man. You wouldn't be able to get any of this information outta me so many years ago. , 

[00:45:25] John Boruk: How do you enjoy fatherhood and you have kids and you're trying to raise 'em a certain way and maybe they're athletes. And so that's where you can really instill all of the life experiences that you endured in, in giving it back to them.

[00:45:41] Jumaine Jones: It's fun. It's fun actually because I see life from a different light. Being where I am now being able to go get the help that I needed to get help to see clearer. And my kids are athletes. , my oldest daughter. She, she stopped playing [00:46:00] basketball, but she's in dental school now.

She found out it was too. Oh, good. She found out it was too hard trying to be an oral surgeon and play basketball. She's in her first year at Temple and I have a daughter at at Channey. It's her first year playing volleyball. And I have a junior at Haverford High who just committed as a junior to temple Univers.

So just be able to get this experience. My son's at Westminster College. His first year playing basketball there. So it's been, it is been great. Fatherhood's been great to be able to get in and tie in to, my kids and teaching them my path and letting them understand the things I experience.

And just to be able to touch on about the tough things about being an athlete. My youngest daughter, She number six in the state, in the high jump. And somebody told me if she didn't learn how to jump, then she would be she would hurt herself. So then I made a phone call to Randall Cunningham.

Who [00:47:00] who's Philadelphia Eagle Quarterback. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And his daughter's number one high jump in the world. 

That's right in Las Vegas. 

[00:47:09] Jumaine Jones: In Las Vegas. Yeah. He's a pastor there. And we spent. Spent a couple of weeks in Vegas with him, pretty much just teaching her the basics.

So just to be able to have those kind of connections and put my kids on and have them listen to other people who's actually been through a lot like Randall and myself, and put 'em in places, it's just been a good experience, man. Now that I'm in a different space, Can share these experiences and let them understand how tough things gonna be and how they're gonna continue to go through things that's gonna be tough and keep getting back up.

So they've read my story. 

[00:47:47] John Boruk: Yeah. Yeah. What just gimme your 2 cents on what you would tell some of these aspiring athletes, or they're teenagers, they're playing AAU, they're trying to do all the [00:48:00] right things. They want to get, the notoriety. Social media now is a big difference maker.

That wasn't around when we were growing up. Give your 2 cents on what you try to pass down to some of these kids who are going through this. Maybe it humbles them a little bit. And maybe it just gives them some, a little something to think about.   

[00:48:22] Jumaine Jones: See. My thing is with so much going on, it's hard, that's why I like to get out as much as I can because I want to understand more about what they're going through, because it is different.

It is so much different from what we we've experienced and what we came through. What I would say, man, just try to keep your nose clean and you gotta be tunnel vision. You gotta be focusing on whatever it is, if you got a dream of making an nba, you got a dream of just playing in college.

That's gonna require a focus. And it's gonna be a focus that's [00:49:00] going to determine everything that you have dreams about having. And if you're not focused in on that it's gonna be tough. And you have a lot out there that's, that can deter you. Like you said, the social media and so many other things that's out there to distract these guys.

We didn't have that many distractions as we, we were growing. So it was a lot easier for us. Just keep your nose clean. Be careful about what you put on your social media platforms. I just heard something maybe two days ago, somebody just lost a division one scholarship about something that they posted.

On their social media. So just try to keep your nose clean. Be aware of your surroundings. Be aware of anywhere that you are. Make sure you have your teammates and somebody that you know that's cared for you to be around cause there's so much stuff that's going on. Always keep your head on a swivel to be able to know your environment.

Know the people you hanging out with cause if you hanging out with [00:50:00] this person, committing robberies. What do you think people think you're doing? Be careful about that and just, put your head down and work hard and surround yourself with good people and like-minded people.

[00:50:11] John Boruk: Yeah. It seems like that you've done that. You're on such a good path now. You got a great story. I think that we could all be certainly inspired by some of the stories that. People who've gone through it, they've had the highs, the lows, but it's how you come through it. Resiliency is one of the best character traits that I think anybody can have.

Jermaine Jones, the Last Man Standing: Behind the Game. Hey, thanks for coming in and doing this. I hope that whatever you do from this point forward is gonna be met with tremendous success, and I'm sure it is. I appreciate you. Yeah, because you've, like I said, you come from a good place doing a book, putting it on paper Is very therapeutic in itself.

Absolutely. You get a chance grab the book. Jermaine Jones has a really [00:51:00] good story to tell. Thanks for that. We're gonna end our show with our quote of the day. Having talent means you have a temporary advantage until someone works harder than you. So work to raise your talent.

Don't rest on it. All right. Please subscribe to us wherever you listen. Spotify, Google Apple Podcast. We greatly appreciate it. Thanks for listening and we'll hope you'll join us again.