Get Comfortable being Uncomfortable with West Chester Field Hockey Coach Amy Cohen

[00:00:00] John Boruk: Hello again. Welcome in to Raising a Champion. I'm John Boruk. Wherever you're listening, however you're listening, we always want you to subscribe to us. That way you're notified of whenever there is a new episode that's just released. Typically, we get 'em out every Monday morning, sometimes a little bit later in the day, but subscribe to us.

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And with that, Our guest today, and as if you've been listening, we get, we've had a little bit of field hockey. We've had Hannah Prince, the field hockey coach at St. Joe's. We had the O'Donnell's who have five division one field hockey players. And my guest today is [00:01:00] the field hockey head coach at West Chester University.

Her resume. Quite impressive. She's got three national championships on her resume, winning it all in 2011, 2012 and 2019. And if she doesn't make it to the Final Four, it's probably a disappointment. So with that I welcome in Amy Cohen. Thanks for coming in. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, absolutely.

And. I believe you were you a goalkeeper at Lafayette? 

[00:01:27] Amy Cohen: Yes, 

[00:01:27] John Boruk: A goalie at Lafayette. Okay. All right. So you played, field hockey's always been in your blood roll parts.   

[00:01:32] Amy Cohen: blood roll parts. It's always been in the blood. It's yeah I still do not like Lehigh University. Sorry for any listener out there from Lehigh, but good old Patriot League action there.

Yes. That's the longest I think, standing football rivalry in the country.

[00:01:45] John Boruk: Yeah. Yeah. Bigger than arm, longer than Army Navy, correct. Lafayette Lehigh every year. I love all the sport fun facts you. Like you're a huge sports fan. In fact, just tell me, tell the listeners out there the story. You had [00:02:00] money you got married to your wife and then you, instead of going on a honeymoon, 

[00:02:07] Amy Cohen: My wife's gonna love that I am sharing the story, but instead of going on a honeymoon, it came up the Eagles season Ticket Lottery.

It's a lottery to get in there to buy the PSL, which is the stadium builder license, which they're quite expensive, but a very big Eagles fan always have been. So instead of going on a honeymoon, my wife, who is a Buffalo Bills fan and Buffalo New York native, allowed us to get Eagle season tickets.

So e A G L E s Eagles, I cannot wait for Saturday night. I will be there in all my gear. Let's go birds. There you go.   

[00:02:42] John Boruk: If she's part of the Bill's mafia, she's almost probably even more hardcore than you are.   

[00:02:47] Amy Cohen: Definitely hardcore. And there is nothing like a Buffalo's Bills game or a tailgate.

I tell all of my buddies that we tailgate with and actually my tailgating friends, all, all from West Chester tailgate, actually with a group of guys [00:03:00] who Mark Feldman, his daughter, played for me. And I've met so many wonderful people through him and Chris Toppi, who's daughter also played, and they're my tailgating boys.

Yeah. And I tell 'em all the time, there is nothing like a Bills tailgate. It's totally unreal. It's not even in parking lot. So my brother-in-law goes to every home game and he is in the, a lot of a veterinarian's office. That's where you go. People are in backyards. Wherever you can park, you just park and you tailgate with all your friends.

You have huge fire pits going. It's unreal. Again, go Birds love Philadelphia Eagles, but I think Buffalo has a leg up on the tailgating.

[00:03:34] John Boruk: You're also a Rams fan. Westchester Rams. Yep. Like I said you just completed your 11th season at the university. When you take a look at the way that you've developed the program there, what you, obviously there's been a lot of success, but how have you been able to sustain that success consistently?

[00:03:55] Amy Cohen: I have a lot of gray hair now. It didn't start that way. You must color. I don't see [00:04:00] it. It's purple right now actually. It's just baiting out from the Final Four. But I think actually somebody. Recently, success breeds success. Okay. And not that I walked into a program that all of a sudden we were just going to win every game easily.

It wasn't easy. I came to a program where they were division one and the program was just moving to division two. So I took over for a team that was under 500 the year before, and they didn't have a choice in whether they were moving down. So I had a lot of disgruntled athletes at the time in the spring when I got to West Chester, and it was a lot of hard work that first year.

Building a team and trust and teamwork and anything we could do to count to 20. We were doing it from pushups to sit ups, to running, to jumping jacks, literally anything we could just to do it together and we would start over if they would get it wrong. So we did a lot of team building that first year, and then we did have success the first year.

We're very lucky. We barely got into the NCAA tournament, but we did get in, we had a couple upsets and we ended up winning a national championship my [00:05:00] first year. And then year two, same thing. And then from that point on, as I'm saying, we had the tradition, our tradition is success.

And I think, as I said, success breeds success. So just been very fortunate and making sure that you take nothing for granted and it's hard work and you constantly have a target on your back. But. Teaching your student athletes to enjoy the moment. And then as a coach, I think being successful, what allows me to continue be, to be successful is not seeing them just as student athletes.

They're people first. And I pride myself in treating them as good humans. And I hope that they, treat me with the same respect. And we've been very fortunate over the 12 years to have the success that we’ve had. 

[00:05:39] John Boruk: So your first two seasons you win a national championship, you're like I got this in the bag.

With that mean, I know it's not that easy, but rarely do you see a first year coach win a title and then do it again and back to back years. What did you learn from that and did you be [00:06:00] almost become a measuring stick that other programs were then now trying to catch up to you?

[00:06:04] Amy Cohen: I definitely learned that winning isn't easy.

And I learned how large a target can actually be and when you're winning, I think a lot of times you actually end up on an island by yourself and it can be very lonely. But what you have to remember from a coaching standpoint and from the team standpoint is that you're doing this together. And I think I learned through that to always lean on them.

Always lean on my student athletes to know that they're the reason that I do this. You don't do this for anyone else. But for the pure joy to see in their face after they win a game. And yeah it's truly not easy and I actually learned through the first few years that it does take a lot of hard work and mental preparation, physical preparation, but there is a luck component also involved.

Did the ball roll the right way? When the tournament schedule was released, did you get the right opponent? Did you have the right official, call at to time? Did the ball, scoot left or right at the right exact moment? Because, the teams that we've [00:07:00] won with, maybe they're not always the most talented.

But definitely the three teams we won with were great teams. We've had, great individual players and I've been very fortunate to coach several national players of the year and we've had, a handful of them that don't win national championships. So it's just finding that right mix and learning along the way.

Take it one step at a time. You don't talk about a national championship every single day. If you do, it could drive you absolutely insane. Yes, it's the end goal. But I truly think it's just looking to the next day, so tomorrow is Wednesday, that's the day that's the most important, and on Wednesday we're gonna get 1% better.

And we try our very best to focus on that every single day. Yeah. 

[00:07:42] John Boruk: It's not looking too far ahead it's really trying to look at it incrementally. 

[00:07:49] Amy Cohen: Yes, and it's a daunting task. If you look at the end goal every single year. 

[00:07:55] John Boruk: It's interesting you were in the Final Four, which happened to take place in Seattle, yet [00:08:00] look at the four teams that were in it.

Three of 'em are in the state of Pennsylvania. Another one, Massachusetts. I don't know why the NCAA has Seattle, Washington as a site for its Final Four, but, 

[00:08:11] Amy Cohen: It's unique to Division II, so every four years you have a national championship festival and it's very much like the Olympics.

So all of the sports come together, everyone besides football, so you have men's and women's soccer cross country, field hockey and volleyball, and we're all out at one site. So Seattle happened to put the bid in and I've been very fortunate. In my years at West Chester two have been included in all three of the festivals that have happened.

So the first year we were in Louisville, Kentucky which was fantastic, and we got to do the Kentucky Derby. They closed it down at night, had fireworks over the second festival was in Pittsburgh. Again, a very cool experience. And then I do think Seattle hit this out of the park. It was a wonderful experience.

For the banquet. They closed down the museum. Modern pop. Okay. Super cool. Yeah, so they had, [00:09:00] a Biggie Smalls Exhibit Nirvana, which is from Seattle. Yep. So all the, all of the student athletes got to play with some instruments, see some really cool things. And we actually had the opportunity to be out there with our women's soccer team.

So both of our programs made Final Fours. In 2022. So it was certainly wonderful, not just for all athletes but for West Chester Athletics. We really represented, unfortunately neither of us came home with the end all, be all big national championship trophy, but kids certainly had a great experience and I think that's, something that certainly sets division to a part and it's a unique experience.

Yeah, we played the teams from Mountain, the East coast, but we got to go to Seattle for free. Oh, it's neat. They had a really nice hotel and do lots of cool stuff. 

[00:09:41] John Boruk: Yeah, absolutely. , when you look at a Division two program obviously the goal for maybe a lot of athletes is they wanna play and go DI. And whether that's the Penn State or St. Joe's Virginia, Maryland, wherever. Lafayette. Lafayette, all yeah. Yeah. Were you [00:10:00] Delaware, were you, yes. But w when you're trying to compete with, How tough is that knowing that you're not gonna be their first choice? So you're looking at the next tier athlete?

 Or do you try to, pluck an athlete here or there? Who could be potentially be D one?

[00:10:17] Amy Cohen: So I think one of my strong suits is recruiting, and I can sell you on a national championship experience, right? So those first two years, you can go to those all above mentioned schools that we're just talking about, but I didn't hear you mention some of the UNCs, oh, go mayor.

The wall out there. So I'm not recruiting against UNC, I'm not gonna recruit against Maryland. But I will recruit against every school you just mentioned. I'll recruit against Lafayette, I'll recruit against Villanova, recruit against. Delaware, Drexel, all the local schools. And West Chester, I think is such an easy sell.

Number one, we're purple. Love being purple. Such a huge thing. I came from a high school where we were Kelly Green and white, which wasn't too bad. My first head coaching experience at Susquehanna. That was [00:11:00] an eye popper. That was the maroon and orange combo that no one seemed to understand.

It was a hard one. Coming to West Chester and you're coaching females they happen to love the purple and the yellow combo. It's easy. We're in a very wonderful community. 

[00:11:14] John Boruk: I was gonna say part of that is, is that, and I've even talked to people an old colleague of mine whose daughter played field hockey and came out to Westchester, I don't think she stayed with the program, but Al Morganti's daughter, Uhhuh and he goes wow, I didn't realize what.

Cool area. It is you, it's almost like you, you have to bring them out there, see the town, see how the town and the college are integrated together then to really get a good feel because it does have that nice small college town atmosphere.  

[00:11:43] Amy Cohen: Yeah, it does. And you had to say Al's name was, I listened to 94 1 every morning and listened to him and I didn't know his daughter did not play for me.

But yes, the town is awesome and that's actually what sold me on the job. If you're in state PA, it's still under 10 grand for your [00:12:00] tuition. It's such a wonderful bang for your buck. Three blocks off of campus and you're on Market, you're on Gay street, and you're on the side streets and you're seeing all the awesome little niche shops and the bars and the restaurants and this and that, and you can go from sushi to oysters to, great smoked chili.

Whatever it is you want, it's there in West Chester, pa in a very safe community, and that's an easy sell. For me, and hey, you wanna compete for a national championship, come play for me because I can promise that's gonna happen. Or you can go to those schools, put the same time in blood, sweat, and tears, and maybe you make your conference championship one year.

So to me it's an easy sell and if you can talk to parents that way. It's also, with college you're looking at secondary schools now. So if you're from PA and you're talking about some of these schools where you can spend 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 grand to go to school, or West Chester has $10,000.

It's in a great community, we're offering you a chance to play for a national championship. We have a wonderful water-based facility where we still [00:13:00] have kids that do USA field hockey. It's a no-brainer.   

[00:13:02] John Boruk: I hear the summer camp now. I've never taken one but my kids have taken swim lessons right next door.

And I've seen the hordes of PE girls that go down there. I hear the camps are tremendous. 

[00:13:13] Amy Cohen: We have a great facility for camps and we run day camps and our elite camps in the evening. And we meet a lot of our recruits that way. Actually, one of the families that you just spoke to, the O'Donnells who Erin is transferring from JMU, and I remember her as a sophomore in high school when she was coming to our night camp.

Yeah and actually my post about her was ex camper now a Ram. It's fantastic. It's a great feeder program for us. You're gonna draw in people an hour to maybe two hours away. Obviously all the local campers, there's so many kids that we pick up right here from the Wilmington, Newark, Delaware area that will come to camp and then they end up becoming Rams.

I have a one on the team now that just graduating Darris Bvk, who actually grew up right down the road. I remember watching her play. She's been at our camp since she was eight years old. So it's a great time. And they do [00:14:00] swim. So we have swimming and lots of non-field hockey fun that we have.

And then obviously we're obviously teaching the hockey as well. 

[00:14:06] John Boruk: Yeah. I tell in just the short time that you and I have been talking and everything strongly convicted. Believe who you are. You're not gonna hide it from anybody. This is who I am, take it or leave it. And I would have to think in a lot of ways it's a very positive because when your students or the girls that you're coaching see that they may feel comfortable coming to you and.

Talking about something that they're uncomfortable with or something that you know, that they aren't ready to really disclose to their parents, but they can come to you with?

[00:14:39] Amy Cohen:  Yeah, for sure. We have a saying as coaches you say these silly things all the time, but we talk about get comfortable being uncomfortable.

And for me, I'm an open book and I try my very best to instill that. in all the young women that come through our program. And it's not easy teaching that to a 17 or an 18 year old, but luckily you have adults around them, from [00:15:00] myself to the assistants, to their older teammates that model the behavior.

And we have an open door policy and they know they can contact me any hour of the day and actually I am open to the parents. That's something that's, it's a hot topic whether or not college coaches or just coaches in general wanna deal with parents. But I look at this as it is a family experience and don't necessarily wanna talk to parents every single day about my job and playing time, but if there was ever a situation that they needed me in where I'm not disclosing information that I can't share, I'm there for them. I'm a parent myself, and I just wanna be there for my student athletes, for the parents obviously with their approval of their own child first.

But yeah, we just wanna make sure that we're there for them as much as we possibly can be. It's not always a fun profession, in my opinion, being a college coach, I think it's so stressful because you're worried about what decisions 17 to 22, 23 year olds are making every single day. And I don't yet think their [00:16:00] brains are fully developed.

We have tobe a, of course, not a psychiatrist, psychologist aren't here to help us with this, but the decisions they make affect my livelihood. So I talk to them constantly about, life is all about the choices that you guys make and I don't wanna. All of the choices for them. I wanna teach them the best I can to make good choices.

And if you don't make a good choice, okay, let's hope that it's not the end of the road type of bad choice. And we can come back from it. But yeah, you have to allow them to fail and then you be there to pick 'em up. And that's just my coaching philosophy. 

[00:16:32] John Boruk: And I think that's probably where you take a look at society over the last 15, 20 years, is that parents don't allow their kids to fail enough. Right? 

[00:16:41] Amy Cohen: I'm gonna be that parent. I'm sure 

[00:16:43] John Boruk: You may, but then somebody will be there to remind you. Absolutely. It's like they, they've got, they, that's how they grow. That's how they'll eventually succeed, is if they experience failure or that, you just can't, you can't be a bubble. You can't be a shield.

[00:16:58] Amy Cohen: No. And my other quote is I [00:17:00] constantly am reminding the kids of my team, That sometimes your best isn't yet good enough, but what you have to hope as an athlete is that one day it will be. And, all the participation medals that we hand out to, to kids at a young age, it just I don't know if it sends the right message.

It's great to get 'em started, but it's like everyone's a champion. They're not always going to be champions, and that's really hard when they come into college programs, when they, even if it's a division two program, they're coming in, they're probably the best player on their high school team and maybe they have to sit for two years.

But if they push through it and after those two years, you become an All American for two, which is pretty much a standard that we have with our program. It's gonna be a great ride, but not everyone can make those first two years. It's really hard. 

[00:17:40] John Boruk: It's a rollercoaster. You've been doing this 11 years when it comes to the parents, are they you now receiving more calls than you did or fewer calls?

[00:17:47] Amy Cohen: I actually received fewer I'm there for them at tailgates. When we travel, I actually open up travel plans for them. I just remember as a college athlete myself always being concerned about where my mom [00:18:00] was and if she was at a game late, and this was probably before we had cellphones. I had a pager when I was first in college but I never want any of my student athletes to be worried about their parents and. I worked for programs that the parents never were allowed to be around the kids. They couldn't have baked goods at tailgates. And I just want everything out in front so I can see what's going on. Cause I think they're gonna do it anyway and they're gonna hide, things from you.

So I, I just go with the open approach to everybody and actually the phone calls are less now, which is. Odd. I don't know why. But yeah, we have a great relationship. I have a good time with all of our families, and I actually think the parents probably struggle more with graduation than the actual student athlete does.

[00:18:41] John Boruk: That's good though, because you're getting out there, you're allowing the parents to get to know you and Sometimes I think that parents really, maybe they keep their distance, but with you, it's get to know me. I want to tell you about myself, right? I wanna tell you what I'm about, as a coach, as a person.

[00:19:00] And that's I think what's really gonna bring everything, all of it together. 

[00:19:06] Amy Cohen: I had my old assistant who now is working at Mary Mac and actually for a different sport, for women's lacrosse. They're now division one. I was speaking at the Philly Coaches Convention last spring, and I, Abby, what should I talk about?

And she's I think you should get up there and speak about parents. I'm like, what? She's that's your strong suit. I'm like, you're kidding. That's what you think I should talk about at a convention. She's absolutely. You need to talk about how to incorporate a parent into today's college athletic world.

So I did it. And it was interesting because you had high school coaches and coaches that are a little bit in a different world. So some of the club coaches talking about issues that they have, and our issues are just different at our level. But yeah I think being an open allows for the families to know you on a different level.

It allows the families to maybe be a little bit more comfortable the first day that they dropped their daughter off. You're still gonna worry. But just knowing they [00:20:00] can reach out to me if they ever truly had to, I think is a comfort level. Now I'm telling you, most people don't do that, but they know they could if they wanted to.

[00:20:06] John Boruk: Yeah. I like to roll through people's Twitter feeds and see what you know, it, it gives you some insight into what they're about and what they do. And for you, and this is a big phrase, if you're a big Philly sports fan, trust the process. Trust the process. So when you think about your process, what does that entail?

[00:20:22] Amy Cohen: I say it quite a bit. Probably just what I was talking about that the first year of college definitely your first semester is a rollercoaster. And it doesn't matter if you are the 25th person on our roster. You are there and you're there for a reason, and some days are gonna be good and some days are going to be bad and you're probably not gonna play a lot to, maybe you're the freshman who is in the top 15 or 16 and you're playing, maybe you're starting, it's going to be the same rollercoaster ride because that person that's starting is now worried about a whole different batch of issues, whether I like them or not Chris. For some reason, kids really truly [00:21:00] care what a college coach thinks. Did I make a good choice on the field? Do the upperclassmen like me because I took so-and-so's position? So it's a rollercoaster. And I tell the parents during the recruiting process, same thing. You're gonna get a phone call, 7:00 AM in the morning.

It's gonna be the worst day of your kid's life. We went to Lyft, something happened, whatever. Then they call you at lunch and the day's a little bit better. But you're sweating now as a parent at 7:00 AM, the phone rings. Oh my god. Something. It's really nothing, but it was just not a good start today.

Then maybe the boyfriend or girlfriend breaks up with a. Life is now. Over then we had the best practice of our life and oh my God, mom, it was so awesome. And she told me I did such a wonderful job. It's just a rollercoaster and unfortunately as a parent, you're on it with your athlete. Yeah. And I think that's the hardest thing is you're gonna have to listen to this and realize that don't push the panic button.

They're gonna be okay. But the first two years I think are extremely difficult being a college athlete. And if you can push to the first two, I think the last two provide some amazing moments. And that's [00:22:00] not to say that kids freshman, sophomore year don't have good experiences. I know a lot do, but I think the first two are hard.

And then you figure things out sophomore year, somewhere along the way. And then junior, senior year you, you got it made, you know how the program works and you're the coach, all your teammates and hopefully you're out there really providing on the field. And it's just a different.

[00:22:16] John Boruk: Yeah 17, 18 year olds, they come into any new environment and there's gonna have a lack of confidence and uncertainty because they don't know what to expect. And for people who already acclimated to those, that environment and the system and everything that you're doing it's tough. And to get them up to speed and then, if you have some that.

Maybe they're coming from an hour or two hours away. They may start to get homesick. 

[00:22:44] Amy Cohen: We've got kids that are coming from across the pond. So currently on the roster, yeah. From, England and just having some kids recently from Australia, New Zealand, Germany the Netherlands, they come from all over the place.

We have recruits coming in from California not [00:23:00] this year, but the next. So yeah you can. 

[00:23:01] John Boruk: So how do you get them settled in there? How do you make them feel comfortable knowing that this is gonna be such a culture change for them?   

[00:23:09] Amy Cohen: You make 'em so busy that they don't have time to worry about these things.

But I think the recruiting process starts so early that now the athletes become friends with each other prior to college. So although I preach maybe you don't wanna live with these people, cuz all you really know is they love hockey to start, but you have your friend group already. So some of the stresses that general freshmen have about college, I think athletes don't have.

Cuz they're always gonna have their teammates. And when I preach to them and when I talk to the parents and I talk to all of them about is that you're not gonna have. The first year, it's not friends on your team. What'd you have is. Family and friends are different, and every adult truly understands that you're family.

You don't always like them, but they're always there for you, right? And you love them and that's your teammates. And you're eventually with your team. You will find your friends. But don't come into a situation thinking you're gonna have 24 friends. That's really hard. Friendship takes time, but what you're gonna have is [00:24:00] family and family's gonna be there to help you.

And they're freshmen, they make mistakes, and sometimes you drink too much or you do things you're not supposed to do. And what I always say, did you hold their hair, were you there for them? Did you welcome 'em home? Did you take care of 'em? That's the stuff that matters. And that's family. And that's being a good college teammate.

 [00:24:14] John Boruk: I like that. Here's a quote that you tweeted out and you can elaborate on this. The threat to college sports is not name, image and likeness. It's not transfers. It's that we've forgotten that it's supposed to be fun at some level. 

[00:24:26] Amy Cohen: Yeah, I saw that about a week ago. And that's something that resonates with me actually from my dad.

My dad was never big into sports. All right, so my dad my dad's a dentist and missed a lot of what I was doing growing up. My mom was always there at every game and I remember him coming to so many games at Lafayette probably cuz my mom drug him all over. So by the time I was a senior, I don't think he ever missed a game, but after every single game he asked me the same thing.

Did you have fun? And I'm like, dad, we lost gimme 40 freaking minutes before you ask me this question, . But he was like, we're done with this. . If [00:25:00] you're not enjoying what you're doing, you have to enjoy. He's I can't win or lose, but enjoy every minute, Amy, every time you step on that field, have a great day.

And whoever actually. Posted that tweet. I thought of that and I think being a division three head coach, we've talked about this a lot recently. The difference between division one, two and three, and I think we're right in the middle at division two. Division one more of a business two.

It's the best of both worlds. Three it's non-scholarship, so it's just a little bit different. Those kids are there really, truly cuz they want to be there. And I was a division three head coach and I do remember how enjoyable that experience was. And I try to instill this now with my student athletes.

Guys, this is gonna be the best four years of your life. Stop putting so much stress on yourself, period. And I don't know if it's inward stress that the student puts on them self, or if it's stress outside boyfriends, girlfriends, parents, aunts, uncles, whoever. But it's [00:26:00] really difficult to watch student athletes struggle.

And I think if they can just enjoy every moment, even if they're not succeeding, trust the process. Enjoy the process. It's four years, maybe five, maybe sometimes there's six. Not usually in my sport, but again, when I think back on my college experience and my wife and I talk about this all.

Now, I love my children, don't get me wrong, but if you would give me three months that I could go back, I would love to go back and be a college junior or a senior where I could absolutely just play unquestionably three months of college. Yes. Sign me up.  

[00:26:33] John Boruk: Yes, because you know why, now you're equipped with the knowledge and stuff that you didn't have back then, and now you want to implement.

We all become wiser. Absolutely. I can't tell you how many times I've sit there and replayed, oh, if I could just have. One game back, you know that one play. And I think as athletes, that's how you are. Yeah. If it doesn't if you play at the high school level, the college level like we did, or even the professional level, [00:27:00] it's you, I always went in expecting to win.

So when I won, it's yeah, because I put in all the things that I needed to do to get to that point, but when I lost it was like, oh, why did I lose? And I. And so it's easy to do that at the college level because it's like, what am I doing wrong? If they're not getting plenty time, oh, I made a background.

Social media gets now, gets in the way. Oh, social media. Yep. Yeah. So it's easy to do that. Yeah. When you're, you just wanna relive those moments. 

[00:27:33] Amy Cohen: I would just love it and to have no other care in the world. But winning or losing. So for me, I go home, you have to care for your family.

You're worried about all these other things in college. What were our worries? Really? It was just okay. I had to go to class. Yes. But it was game day baby. Love game day. Yeah. And enjoy, enjoy those moments. And for me, the winning, you just said something that came to mind. I literally hate losing at this point more than I enjoy winning the losses as a college coach, just burn [00:28:00] you.

And I could probably walk you through every one of the last 12 years, and I could go back to Susquehanna as well. I remember literally everything you asked me about the national championships there. There's a handful of things I remember from those games. 

[00:28:12] John Boruk: But it's the losses, what there's a psychology to that and it's, you can trace that back to your childhood, your childhood.

You may not remember every single time that you went to Disney World or you went to the pool, you don't remember all the good times. But when something really traumatic happens, that's there, that is top of mind, And really that's how the human mind is conditioned. Is that you remember those moments that are almost, they don't happen very often, [00:28:44] 

Amy Cohen: So you're gonna tell me when I'm 80, I'm not gonna remember the wins. I'm only gonna remember the losses. It's gonna be great. I can't wait. I'll go back and listen to No, 

[00:28:50] John Boruk: Here's what I'm gonna tell you when you're 80, you're not gonna remember anything at that point anymore, right? But playing a sport, and we'll get into it with kind of our sons. My, my son's a little older than your [00:29:00] son.

They're both playing hockey, but field hockey thinks a lot of the same way. And the one thing that I wish that I could, the coaches when I could watch out there is to have every player be selfless. How do you create and teach selflessness on a team?  

[00:29:16] Amy Cohen: I don't think you can. I think either you have it or you don't.

And I actually just spoke to my current goalkeeper about this. We went for coffee yesterday and I was talking to her about a player right now, Millie on my team that I think is the most selfless player. And she's not somebody that is able to right now give back as much as she would like on the field, but she is the one on my I will do anything for anybody. 

And it is so hard to find those players, and I don't think you can teach it. You can't. You can preach it as much as you want, but when it comes down to game day and you're only playing at 15 to 16 kids, it's really hard to look at those other kids that you adore that are on your sideline [00:30:00] and tell them that they're enough and you're good enough and your role is important.

And that's our job as a coach. And I try to do my best with that, but to actually have selfless teammates. I think that comes from within and those are the best kids that ever comes through your program.

[00:30:13] John Boruk: It is. And to be able to incorporate them and as a teenager to trust that they're gonna finish the play that you start but you're gonna find that out as your kid plays hockey. It's almost, it's a one-on-one game. And to see them actually wanna make a two-on-one pass or a three or something in those situations, it's rare that's that. So start talking to your son right now. Start talking now. Just say Make the pass. Make the pass.

[00:30:40] Amy Cohen: I wanna see a pass. The son of two coaches. So I'm very hopeful that he will. Selfless. And right now just watching me, I just was showing you a video. My, my guy couldn't even skate a year ago today he was barely skating and out. He's out there, and I'm not gonna tell you he's the best on the ice, but he's power skating and it is so fun to watch.

And he's the hardest [00:31:00] worker on the ice as a six year old. And that right now to be a coach's kid, I'm like, hell yeah. Look at my son. Go. I was such a proud mommy yesterday. Watching him out there playing hockey was awesome. 

[00:31:10] John Boruk: That's it. Two things. Just work hard. Have fun! 

[00:31:11] Amy Cohen: That's it. All right. Yeah , hey, because my dad will not be happy with the broken teeth that I'm sure gonna come. But there we know a dentist so well. 

[00:31:20] John Boruk: That's that. You don't have to worry about that till, maybe 19, 20 and they're playing junior hockey. So that's what skill, when it comes to the game can you always keep working on and improving?

If you're playing ice hockey, it's skating. You can never be a, you can never be too good at skating. 

[00:31:40] Amy Cohen: So I think for our sport, there's a lot of things. It's control the controllables, right? With any sport. Field hockey, it's fitness. That's the first thing. Are you fit and can you be more fit?

And if you're at the top of your fitness, great. And then yes, your skillset. Can you hand handle the ball? So ball handling is, it's supreme, our sport, and I would tell you [00:32:00] that's probably the trademark of my program. And then you have a specialty skill set and just regular skill. So whether you're fluid on your backhand.

So with ice hockey you use both sides of the stick field. Hockey, you don't, it's just your forehead, but you have a backhand shot, you have to turn your wrist. And then a lot of specialty skills. For ice hockey, just trying to think to explain this too. So for field hockey, you have a penalty corner.

It's different than a man up situation, but it actually, it's similar. You can have as many attacking players as you want. On the penalty circle defensively, you get four and a goalkeeper. And the ball's gotta be inserted out. So to, to hit that ball out, that's a especially skill stick.

Stopping specialty skill, striking, drag, flicking, throwing the ball. There's all these dry skills that you can certainly work on your own. And then obviously the team skills. So same concepts. Complete and finish the two on one. That's the name of the sport baby, especially for field hockey. Ice hockey's gonna be the same way. 

[00:32:51] John Boruk: Do you run a hard, rigorous practice? 

[00:32:55] Amy Cohen: Demanding. I try to have some fun. So we changed our practice up a few years ago to actually [00:33:00] incorporate a fun game to get us started. And it started with summer camp, so you mentioned it and I noticed that my team was having a very good time with the warmup games.

So we do head, shoulder, knees, toes, cone, sister, we do red light, green light, whatever it is that we can possibly think of to practice out. We do it. And it's, I think, look good, feel good, play good. They do work hard and I'm really proud of them for that. There has to be some type of fun element at practice.

I, I worked for somebody years ago that told me there's no room for sarcasm in coaching, and I'd like to tell you she was wrong. And I I've been very successful to this point, but you have to have fun. And when it's time to work, it's time to work. And sometimes it's difficult to differentiate. And I think that's part of freshman, sophomore year.

Maybe a little bit of struggle, like when is Amy being serious and when is it time to like button up and control ourselves to junior, senior? They say there's should be a dictionary that comes along with me, what I say and what I actually mean. And I'm starting to understand that now about myself.

But we have a really great time [00:34:00] of practice and the kids do work on it. 

[00:34:01] John Boruk: It's interesting that you mentioned that about sarcasm, cuz I do read that it's almost as if today, that athletes aren't equipped to handle sarcasm or it's just the psychology of it. But certain athletes can handle it better than others.

 [00:34:15] Amy Cohen: Yeah. And I actually think as a coach I don't know if you're supposed to coach everyone the same way. I don't. So like you're saying, there's certain kids that maybe enjoy that and maybe there's something that you have to be a little softer with. And it's, from a coaching perspective, it's how do you get the most outta your athletes?

And I don't think life is fair. I think you have to learn at a young age. It's not, and neither is coaching, neither is playing and everyone has to be treated just a little bit differently cuz we're all built different is that, we're all built the differently, but yet we're all the same. Yeah.

Okay. But from my point, if I'm trying to get the best out of this orange, I may squeeze a little bit differently than a pineapple. It, different type of juice is gonna come out. So I, I treat my athletes that way.

[00:34:55] John Boruk: Yeah. When it comes to coaching, what keeps you up at night? . [00:35:00] 

[00:35:00] Amy Cohen: Oh. It's usually not x’s or o’s, it's just worrying about them.

If somebody is hurt or if I've hurt someone, if I said something that I, that they can't let go, I was maybe too hard on somebody that day, or not too hard. It was a, they're having a bad day, I didn't know it and I went at them a little too much. And that keeps you up. I, quite often, will say that I pride myself in trying to be a good person and by being a good person, I think that does make me an exceptional coach.

And I can always put my head down at night, but there are times where I certainly have to make a text or a phone call first before I go to sleep. 

[00:35:37] John Boruk: Do you share personal experiences with them maybe growing up? I'm sure that you were probably teased or ridiculed. We all are to some extent.

[00:35:49] Amy Cohen: All the time you have to share. I think that's what makes us human right. And I think more coaches should do that. I'm not a book on how you should do things. I'm just an open book on how I do things [00:36:00] and I will talk to 'em about being overweight. I talk to 'em about being a Jewish female. I talk to them about being a lesbian.

I talk to them about being a lesbian family with little kids and just all the little things that you go through. And what they constantly see is somebody who's strong looking back at them. And I think sometimes they're shocked by some of the experiences that I've had in life just because they see me as so strong and confident.

But I think that's good for them because I think it humanizes me and it shows them all the things that I've gone through in my life to be the successful person that I. As I already said, life's not easy, right? No, I know. 

[00:36:36] John Boruk: That's when I look at you, I think two things. Comfortable in your skin.. How long did it take for you to to come to that? 

[00:36:46] Amy Cohen: I don't know, probably somewhere along the process of being the head coach of West Chester University of Field Hockey. I have had such a great experience here and I've met really, truly some of the most wonderful people.

And my first [00:37:00] year coaching I talk about her quite a bit, but Nicole Fiorello, who played for me and worked for me, To this day is not just my best friend, she's our family's best friend. When she started working for me, she started telling all of the athletes we had coming into the office that I was gay.

And all the first time she did it I nearly lost it. And I'm like, why did you ever do that? And she's We don't want these people coming and playing for us if they're not gonna accept you for who you are. Because I was just part of that generation where I had, bosses and people in my life that were a certain way and they just they hid it.

And I thought to myself, how awful of a life that must truly be to have to live like this. And she was like, you're not doing this. You're too good for this. And I think she actually is one of the people that helped give me the confidence to be the person that I am today. And I know I'm supposed to be the one responsible for my student athletes.

And. I think a lot of times as coaches, I take so much from them and I only hope I can give something back in return. Yeah. 

[00:37:57] John Boruk: Five things that, to [00:38:00] tell how committed an athlete is. I thought this was pretty interesting too, that I came across. What time they arrive at practice. Is that a big deal?

[00:38:07] Amy Cohen: Absolutely. Yeah. All time is late, early is on time. Yeah, 

[00:38:10] John Boruk: right. The attitude they bring, not, attitude is something that they control, but obviously that's not always, you're gonna get the same attitude. How much do you preach attitude?

[00:38:24] Amy Cohen: It depends. I think attitude can go in a few ways, right?

So I like kids who are a little strong-willed, right? And you ask me like, how do you get those kids to come play for you? They wanna be Division-I athletes. They better have some type of swagger. Because if you're gonna play for me, I have a very big personality and you're gonna need something in return.

Or maybe I'm not the right person, cuz you don't ever want to eat a player alive type of thing. So yeah, kinda like attitude, but with attitude, you want consistency. I want that same person every day at practice. And I certainly don't want kids that maybe have a little toot off the field and then are goodie two shoes in front of me.

I preach them. Just be who [00:39:00] you are. Yeah. 

[00:39:01] John Boruk: Openness to feedback. And this is, I'm sure, that you this varies and you have to, it goes back to what we were saying before. You gotta know the player. 

[00:39:10] Amy Cohen: I think that's, it's a tough one too. And I think now athletes are more in tune to they've gotten feedback, so they're part of the club system, high school, whatever.

And sometimes they're Stonewall Jackson with you and you don't know how to read them. And I’m poking a bear a little bit, just should I keep pushing? Do I step back a little bit? So yeah, that's a tough one. You sometimes you just don't know. And credit to them that they're tough like that, but like sometimes you gotta listen outside the locker room door, hear what's going on.

Was I too hard today on them? But yeah that's another good one. 

[00:39:45] John Boruk: Yeah. Openness to feedback. The questions they ask. Do you encourage them to ask questions or do you encourage athletes to challenge you?

[00:39:52] Amy Cohen: I don't think you wanna be challenged, per se, as a coach. That takes years, [00:40:00] right?

So I have a player that challenges me quite a bit, but I think in a positive way where they just will add a few things and after I'm done talking. But you want student athletes that make you better as a coach. And I'm not sure. I would use the word challenge, but I would potentially say inquiring minds want to know, and I think there's a right way of going about doing that.

[00:40:22] John Boruk: Okay. And the number five thing on these five things that tell you how committed an athlete is. The extra work they're willing to do? 

[00:40:30] Amy Cohen: Yeah, absolutely. So many athletes will complain a little bit about the playing time and what can I do to get better and instead of that, I love to see the kids that show up at practice early or they stay late to hit a ball.

That's what you wanna see. The kids that are out there practicing and working on their craft when you're not asking them to do it. The ones that are working out when they don't have a workout packet in front of them, cuz it's an off week, the ones that are on vacation and they're going on a hike because they know their fitness is I.

 [00:40:56] John Boruk: So yeah, tho I thought that was really interesting, a as [00:41:00] well, you were a goaltender, as we said off the top of the episode at Lafayette. And in hockey we always say that the gold tenders in hockey, they're a little different. They're a little on the strange and bizarre side.

There's the gold key, gold tending mentality. Is that the same in field hockey?

[00:41:18] Amy Cohen: It's absolutely the same thing. And it's control. So you've got to be in control always. And I think it's the same thing of being a coach, obviously, but yeah, you have to be of a different breed. For ice hockey, they're shooting a puck in your head.

It's the same thing with my sport, they're shooting the puck right at you. But I also think the keepers are the smart ones. They're in full pads in my sport. You wear nothing. They have these tiny little shin guards out there. The whole body is open. And sometimes I just I'm like, oh, when they get hit with the ball, I never had that.

I would get some bruises, but not the way I see my young women out there playing that sport. It's hardcore. 

[00:41:52] John Boruk: I'm stunned that why they don't. More padding. Is it because of movement? It restricts their movement or what?  

[00:41:59] Amy Cohen: [00:42:00] It's just it never has been. And something that we do for fun at the end of our spring is we have a friends and family game, which I know we know some of the same people.

And Zdeno Chara, who played in the NHL for. Quite a while. He's got great hands he can shoot, but if you ask him to run, receive that ball and dribble it down the field. Oh, Stefan better be running now. He used to train with Jacqueline. He's a really great dad. One of his daughter Jacqueline Chara plays on my team.

And he has wonderful with her, but we allow the dads and the moms, the boyfriend's, girlfriends, friends of the family to come down and play and it is hilarious. And it stops the parents from yapping at their kids for at least a few weeks after because they realize actually how hard our sport is.

 [00:42:42] John Boruk: That's good. You're just a fan of all sports. Yep. Where do you draw your inspiration from? Or who comes to mind? What athletes have you been, moments have you been really inspired by that you look at and said, that's something I'm gonna take with me and [00:43:00] implement meant that into my coaching repertoire?

[00:43:01] Amy Cohen: I don't know if I just have athletes growing up that I loved, right? Charles Barkley, who was always with the big mouth, but man, I loved him. Ron Hextall goalkeeper for the Philadelphia Flyers. Darren Dalton loved him. 

[00:43:17] John Boruk: Okay, so you I'm gonna go through all my Philly athletes. I was gonna say but I'm already, I can see the vision.

You like this rough and tumble? Yes. 

[00:43:23] Amy Cohen: Rough around the edges. I was gonna go with Serena Williams as my most favorite. Female athlete, and then you have coaches that you just truly admire and you like the Pat Summits of the world. And Gino Auriemma, who he's actually a West Chester alum. I love watching and reading some of the things that, that he's done.

And yeah, again, it's Philly sports, so a lot of the men and women that come to mind. I love our US women's soccer team. I think they are phenomenal athletes and just watching, tennis with Serena and. I think Serena Williams happens to be one of the most inspiring [00:44:00] athletes, and then to come back and do it the way she was doing it after having a child.

Come on. That's just fantastic. And then you have the gymnast. I could sit there and rattle off and the ice cream. I love Nancy Kerrigan when I was a young one. But, just love sports and I'm not sure I ever thought I would be in this position today where I not only got to be a college coach.

I actually happen to be successful at it. But just the love of the game and love of competing and I can watch any sport and absolutely be down with it. 

[00:44:27] John Boruk: That's fantastic. Amy Cohen head coach at Westchester University, a three time. National Champion. How many more are we gonna add? I don't know.

 [00:44:37] Amy Cohen: I did give a number to my sports information director after the first one, and we haven't hit it yet, so we're still going. Nope. I had high hopes for myself and I don't know if I was kidding when I said it, and I will never admit to it, but we're gonna keep rolling. And there was actually, there's several division two coaches out there, Jan Hutchinson from Bloomsburg University has so many that I don't think any of us will ever touch [00:45:00] the records that she has. Actually, she does, she did it in two sports, softball and hockey. But I'm in a great place. I love what I do. I love who I work for. I've got a great boss, great university behind me. 

[00:45:11] John Boruk: You seem loyal to that because they believed in you when they hired you in 2011. 

[00:45:15] Amy Cohen: And so my old boss, ed Matt Kok, he's actually being inducted into West Chester's Hall of Fame, so congratulations to him. That's actually this coming weekend and I had to actually text him on Saturday and I said sorry, sir, but I'm going to the Eagles game. I won't be there, . So he got a kick outta it.

Real quickly, how's motherhood. It's awesome. I it because you got three little ones. I do. And I get, it's much time consuming. It is. I get teased all the time that I'm now soft, but I'm not soft. I just see life a little bit differently now as a mom.  

[00:45:43] John Boruk: Yeah, absolutely. Amy, thank you so much for coming on.

It's been fun. We'll do it again. And I'm as I said, I mean you, the program's right down the street from where I live, so I follow it and I followed the success. I was hoping you'd bring a national championship back from Seattle, but you were close maybe [00:46:00] next year. Right there on the doorstep.

[00:46:01] Amy Cohen: Thank you for having me. And as always, There you go.

[00:46:03] John Boruk: All right. As we typically do on this show, we end with our quote of the week, and this one comes from. How about college basketball's all time winning. As Coach Mike Kryzyzewski, my hunger is not for success. It is for excellence because when you attain excellence, success just naturally follows.

And with that a reminder, once again, please subscribe to us. And when you do you'll be notified when we have a new episode that usually pops up every Monday morning. So if you drive into work, boom, put us on and listen to us and get your day started. So that's gonna do it for us. Thanks for listening.