Why Being a Great 12-year-old isn't so Great with NHL Scout Lew Mongelluzzo

[00:00:00] John Boruk: All right. Hello again and welcome into the podcast that deals directly with the culture of youth sports and how we can improve the overall experience for everybody. Just go to our Facebook page, give us a like, follow us on Twitter and subscribe to us wherever you listen, and then give us a review.

Your input means a lot and certainly helps us move up the charts. When it comes to podcast, wherever you subscribe to and wherever you listen to, if you're joining us for the first time, Hey, thanks for being with us. We appreciate it if you're back with us. Thanks for coming back. Obviously you like some of the previous episodes and we think you're gonna like this one as well.

When it comes to the sporting calendar. This may be my favorite time of the season because you have March Madness College Basketball Tournament, getting ready to crank up. That leads us into the Masters Golf tournament and then into Hockey's Frozen four and the Stanley Cup Playoffs. My guest this week is very heavily involved in the development of those hockey players for the past five decades, he's been involved in [00:01:00] playing coaching, scouting the game over 30 years of that service to USA Hockey where he has served as a volunteer consultant and a scout. He's been director of player of personnel for U USA Hockey's National Junior Team from 2002- 2006.

He's also very instrumental in the drafting of guys like Chris, and Tim Thomas, pretty big names in the NHL world. He has also founded the Liberty Bell Games, which we will get into something that he formed in 2009. And it premieres some of the top hockey players in the mid-Atlantic region from 14 to 17 years of age for nearly 20 years.

He served as a scout for the Ottawa Senators organization and now serves in that current role with the New Jersey Devils. Lou Mongelluzzo. Lou, how are you doing? 

[00:01:51] Lew Mongelluzzo: I feel older now after all those accolades. Yeah, I'm doing good. It's been a long journey. It's been a great journey.

[00:01:57] John Boruk: Let me ask you this. Yeah. So let me ask you [00:02:00] this. How many players. Have you watched individually in how many different press boxes would you say during your time in the game? Who know? 

[00:02:11] Lew Mongelluzzo: I just, I think about obviously I don't do much pro I did it one time a little bit. I don't do much pro NHL, American Hockey League or East Coast Lake more or less, in the high school ranks at one time, and certainly college.

Pretty much in a seat somewhere with the public or sitting at the top row. But it's been a lot. I never really looked at it. There's no so much, how many players have I watched, how many press boxes I've been in, but it's how many miles I've put on. That's kinda, kinda how I look at it, right?

 [00:02:50] John Boruk: Yeah, it's been a lot. And you do most of your traveling by car, right? Going from one arena to the next, on one night to the other night? It's, I'm sure it's a crazy [00:03:00] schedule. 

[00:03:00] Lew Mongelluzzo: No, it is. And the rules in college I was fortunate enough to spend five years in division one as an assistant at three institutions, RPI, Colgate, Princeton Colgate.

We lost the national title in 90 to Wisconsin in Joe Louis. And back then there were only a couple assistants. Now they have a director of hockey and volunteers. But when I think about the miles and the rules were a little different too. Jesus probably in five years of division one, I probably spent 175 nights in a hotel.

No question. Yeah. Did the whole hit the prairies? The Furries in the Naimo to Vancouver, Paul River. , you name it. I've done it and there's been a lot of people that have done it too and done it before me. 

[00:03:51] John Boruk: Yeah. And you're really you're involved, you have been involved in every aspect and this is a big time of the year as it pertains [00:04:00] to youth hockey because this is tryout time.

So your season your previous season has just. , you're now going through the trial process. They have pre-Ks, they have all of these things associated with it. And I think it, it can get stressful for players, it can get stressful for parents especially if you're looking to transition and change.

But what do you recall about this as a parent going through a lot of this youth hockey process and what advice would you give parents today? 

[00:04:35] Lew Mongelluzzo: Take a deep breath. . It's a real process. For me personally, and I think I've told you, I, I have a 12 year old who's a daughter. She's a girl.

And so personally for me, I never went through what moms and dads go through. I feel like I have. Because I've been around so many of them for so long, so I probably know it better than them in some ways. I [00:05:00] just got back from the Atlantic District playoffs at Ice Line in, in West Chester. Maybe I've talked to a hundred people there this weekend.

I was home this weekend getting an order. What getting in order, what I have to do for the rest the next month before college is the cultivation of the Final Four in Tampa. But I'd say take a deep breath. I think it's a real process. I know parents don't want to hear that or, but it really is.

And I think you have to take a deep breath and take your time. And go through the right situation, try to put yourself in the right situation. So that's the advice I have. Don't be in such a hurry. So that's what I think sometimes when you are, it usually never turns out very well. 

[00:05:49] John Boruk: So when you go into some of these arenas and you're having the, these conversations what is the tone of those conversations, whether it's with parents or coaches or, [00:06:00] the program director, whoever it may be, but what does that look.

[00:06:04] Lew Mongelluzzo: I think with parents I think parents, most of them, they don't know it because they, most of them, certainly in hockey, most of them haven't really played it. So they're looking for a lead. Certainly they ask questions some more than others. Some are little bit laid back, but most aren't.

There's a lot invested. It's. And I think that sometimes brings out, it can bring out the worst in if mother or father. Cause there's so much invested in financially. So it's a big ticket. Youth hockey is, I think you, you're well, and I think, but it's, what can I do better?

What do I need to do? There's a lot of the questions and I spent some time with John Roker, who used to coach in the United States Hockey League, who's over at the Junior Flyers, who works for John Graves. They've got a really good program, both men's and boys and girls. There. . I spent some time with his staff.

I didn't know him that well. I [00:07:00] knew some people that worked with him. The Tyler played in the American Hockey League and. Those guys are good. They really care. They're really devoted. They're not making a lot of money, and most of them are volunteers and the small stipend. But from parents, it's, what do I need to do?

What could I be doing? So that's from them with staff it's more meet and greet. How you doing? Hey Lou, I got a player. I'll ask them a question. That's pretty much the scenario for people like 

[00:07:29] John Boruk: I think if, and you're right, the investment from a parent standpoint almost correlates to how much money they are investing in it.

So if they're investing, you're talking upwards of $10,000 once you factor in your club fees and your travel and anything that you do in the off season easily can be $10,000 or more that they want to keep their foot on the gas pedal. And I don't know if that's, The right approach, the best approach.

You almost have to take it kid by kid, [00:08:00] but it, have we gotten to a point where maybe there is an overkill to all of this?  

[00:08:05] Lew Mongelluzzo: I would say it's probably double what you've said today with the travel. It's closer to 20 probably to be honest with you. I think everybody wants to keep up with the Joneses.

I just wanna point out that I think we were talking about this the other day at the. , I remember that the top 2001 born kids, five of the top the five, let's say top 2001s, four of those kids at 14 years old. Those 2001s, four of those kids didn't even play hockey at 19. So I think that, you gotta take a big breath here.

We're putting it together. We have some 2009s, we'll watch it for our youth program. And we have a local thing and some people are flying all over the country, gonna spend 3, 4, 5 grand to play with another 60 kids that are [00:09:00] 2009 borns. And the fact of it is that, those kids are gonna change so much in just another two years.

The, I think you need to spend your money wisely and not be flying all over America. Because the fact of it is no one's really watching anyway. And if they are watching, they're just saying, okay, he's good now and they're gonna come back in two years to see if they're any good in two years, if that's fair.

Yeah. 

[00:09:21] John Boruk: So I like that. I like that. And there almost needs to be a case study as to why the players who were in that top five or top 10 in their birth year, early on, 20 years later, or at the age of 20 and 20, Why they weren't even in the game. Did you, do you ever look at that and say, 

[00:09:39] Lew Mongelluzzo: Oh, for sure.

I think we all know the answer\. I think you know the answer. And I'll bring it up and I think you'll get it because nobody's got a crystal ball. Everybody matures at a different age. Kids peak at different times. Situational success plays a big bearing on, [00:10:00] in some situation, in some aspects.

I refer back to life itself and we all remember the movie Moneyball. We all saw it. And it's, they don't really say it, but it's interesting that I'm sure you saw it, correct? 

[00:10:17] John Boruk: Oh, yeah. Oh, I see. I watch clips of that all the time. There's so many good little individual moments in that particular movie when they're sitting around.

Talking to scouts, which is why I'm sure you love that movie. They're all talking about, and they, each scout has their little opinion, but at the end of the day, they're saying, this is what we're looking for. This is what we're going for. And just the clash of the clash of the different personality types really comes out in a movie like that.

[00:10:43] Lew Mongelluzzo: Yeah. To, to your, to the point of answering your question the scene at the end of the movie where Russ comes in as the chief, and he says the, the brad, pitter Billy Bean Billy, he says, can I talk to you? And he says, sure. What's [00:11:00] up? He said, in baseball we've been doing this for 150 years the same way.

And now you brought in Google Boy from Yale. Yeah. And now all of a sudden we're talking and ability, I think as Billy Bean says to him, Russ, I've seen you with the dining room table with these parents projecting their ability. Telling 'em what they're gonna do, how they're gonna make it, what they're gonna make.

And the fact of it is you don't know. The fact of it is, I don't know either. We think we know but they don't really tell you why we don't know. And the reason why we don't know is because life gets in the way. Young men put themselves out there, they grow up, they go through puberty, they go to high school, they meet girls.

Some kids run into drinking issues, some run into drugs. We're a free society. We're not in a room in the time we're five training [00:12:00] to go into an army or a navy around the world and certain countries that don't have freedom like we do. So life gets in the way and that really determines to a great extent.

I. The path that we take to some extent other factors, obviously ability and athletics and so on, and how, what kind of athlete you are and so on. So I think, that's what happens. It's life. Kids see other things. They're friends. You know what I'm saying? So it's not regimented like we're in some foreign country.

Behind the iron, old iron curtain, if you will. Right? 

[00:12:36] John Boruk: Oh, sure. We're it's, you're right, it's part of their regimen back in the Soviet Union where they're, they grew up through the Russian Red Army. Do you know you're, and you're right I think that's a tremendous point. What a kid desires at the age of 12.

It may be different at the age of 15 and could be considerably different when they turn 18 or 19. And what they thought that they really [00:13:00] wanted at a young age by the. We all think your body matures well, your brain matures as well, and a lot of those thoughts that now creep into your mind as you get into puberty, were never even there as a kid.

And those are our great points. So when you're a scout you do a ton of just watching them on the ice, but how much do you watch body language? How much do you spend? Conversing with some of these kids over the years and you probably get good insight just from the little things that they say, or perhaps just the things that they don't say.

[00:13:33] Lew Mongelluzzo: I don't do a lot of interviews like I did in amateur, and we have staff like when our, like when the pro hockeys have staffs that do this, but we get some information on what we think in meeting someone and we'll talk to people at the youth level around the league. I'm more or less stay positive, keep working, get stronger. [00:14:00] 

This is what you need to do. It's a lot easier said than done. If you're doing it, if you're cheating it. Those are the kind of conversations I try to stay, I know legitimately how difficult it really is. It's nearly impossible to be quite honest with you. And the fact of it is, a lot of first rounders don't make it in hockey, and the number just goes down from there, obviously, through the rounds, through seven rounds of the draft.

And I just think when you look at the big picture, it's hard. It's hard. I think there's a couple factors that, you know that it makes, make it even harder. So it's that's how it is. It's difficult. It's not nothing worth, anything's easy. No. 

[00:14:49] John Boruk: Absolutely. You talked a little bit off the top of this episode about your collegiate coaching background Rensselaer Colgate, but [00:15:00] this was back in the 1990s. It, and now it seems clearly that the whole face of college hockey has really changed and developed. It's so much more different because back then the route to hockey prominence was major juniors going, up to Canada.

Now it seems like that model has fallen off a little bit, and more and more people are now going the college route, which makes it even tougher for kids. It's become to where the numbers. You're just, Hey, don't e almost don't even think about it. Because that's how tough it has gotten in order to try to work your way into a major college program.

Yeah, 

[00:15:47] Lew Mongelluzzo: I think there's a, there's some real caveats to what's going on with the land. I've always been to the point, so it's no sense in changing. Now, at the age of 63, I [00:16:00] think that we went through the pandemic and I think the portal's a bad. I think the transfer rule is a bad idea where you can play right away.

I can't imagine how difficult it is for coaches in college to coach a kid that can just pull his bootstraps up, enter the porthole, and go from one college to another. I think it's hard for a coach to do that. I think the creation of what they've done has also created a back door for other coaches to call other programs about kids moving agents do it.

So I think it's a little harder. To coach Johnny now, oh, he's not on the power play wall. I'll go to another school. I think that certainly has made it difficult. I think what's made it really difficult too, and just in terms of if you will, getting there, if that's what we use, that's what we refer to.

The fact of it is there's only probably another 12 to 14 division one programs in [00:17:00] the last 50 years, and there's only probably a legitimate 12 to 14 junior teams in the United States in the last 50 years. And the fact of it is there's five times as many kids playing. So it's a numbers game, right?

It's hard when there's way more kids playing. It's way more competitive as we, that's why people do the things they do, and there's not as many out outlets, for lack of a better word, where you can. 

[00:17:28] John Boruk: Yeah, absolutely. And I'm seeing it now where they start out at the squirt level, more programs and more programs.

And this is the dilemma that a lot of parents are faced with now is couple of these programs have started to lose significant kids. In fact, they have, they, they don't have a tier one program anymore. So now those tier one kids are coming down and now you're feeding into fewer programs, but you got a.

P talent pool, which is great. It really, I think at some point I think that [00:18:00] AAA hockey has become so watered down that the product's not the same. So it's good. It's good to have fewer, fewer programs because now you really do have. Elite talent at these AAA programs, but this is what we're seeing, and you're right.

And if you thought your player was a AAA player early on at the age of nine, ten nine or 10, 11, come 12, 13, that may not be the case. And I think that's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of parents. 

[00:18:32] Lew Mongelluzzo: Yeah. I actually call it the curse of the 12 year old. I've never I've raised it and people say, what's that?

Coming from what parents see or what I see with them with their children, the worst thing you can have is a great 12 year old, I swear. It's the worst thing you can have. And the reason is because little Johnny might score 60 goals is appealing and more likely that's because [00:19:00] he skates a lot better.

You follow me? Okay. He gets around the ice a lot better. So he gets to the net a lot faster and a lot quick. The problem is that mom and dad see it. Everybody sees it, but little Johnny's not quite the same player at 17 and when he doesn't score 60 goals in Midget, it's just the way it is. But for some reason, mom and dad still view him that way.

And that's the problem. Okay. He's, and that's okay. That's part of life, right? Everybody matures, whatever. Kids get bigger, kids catch up to other kids, and I see this a lot where some mom and dads can get over the edge because they still view their son as a, as the 60 gold scorer in 50 games in Peewee, and the time he is a.

you know what, he's not a 60 goal score anymore cuz that pyramid is going up and up. But sometimes they still see their child that way. Which I understand. I don't agree with. So that's a problem, if you [00:20:00] think about it. Yeah. I call up the curse of his 12 year old. 

[00:20:02] John Boruk: Yeah. And, alright, so let's take those 12 year olds and let's take it from the angle from you have a overly, just supremely talented 12 year old player and you want.

Make sure that they are well, that their skill, I'm not, their skill levels, stays at a very high level. In other words, you know that players are gonna catch up to 'em, but what can they continue to do? What areas and aspects of their game can they continue to work on to make sure that they don't become, just a, another body in, in, in the.

[00:20:36] Lew Mongelluzzo: I'm a little expert in the development area, but, if you're a good peewee, you just probably just try to keep getting better. You practice your skills. You get ice when you can. You shoot pucks when you can. You do everything you can, but life takes over and things change.

And so Johnny Goudreau, [00:21:00] he was a grade 12 year old, but he also became a grade 16 year old and he became a grade 20 year old. And he's still a great player. But that's not the path for every kid. I'm sure Steve was the same way. And I'm, there's another dozen we can mention, but everybody is not a terrific 12 year old or 14 year old.

Free. Although quite different than it was when there was the Penners and Rafalski in St. Louis. Back then we still have 30 players that are gonna sign NHL contracts that weren't drafted, that are free agents that went through the draft, cuz they may had a flaw or it was a size thing or whatever.

Those kids are gonna get a chance too. So what you can do, you just keep doing everything you can and the chips fall where they may, and that's really. You knows all saying you usually end up where you're supposed to fair. 

[00:21:59] John Boruk: And I think that's a [00:22:00] great case in point when you talk about the, just say the NHL contracts that are offered to players who aren't even drafted.

They're not even on anybody's radars. And I love telling and reciting the story of a guy like Zedno Chara, who, I mean because of his lanky size and at times, such as his awkward skating when he was younger, how many times he was passed up All the tools and all the skill sets and everything that you look for at such a young age may not have been there, or may not been to the point that scouts and teams would've liked.

What it does is it goes to show you that everybody develops. So if even at the age of 18 young Johnny's not exactly where you expect him to be or somebody, that, that doesn't mean that window is as closed. It just means that everybody's on their own timetable, and that's what I think is so great.

Is, you can't nail it at 18 necessarily. Because there, there are so many kids that come into their own [00:23:00] after that. Maybe they go to the NAHL or the USHL and something clicks, something happens. I'm sure you've seen it.  

[00:23:07] Lew Mongelluzzo: It happens a lot and that's why we started the conversation and we called it a process.

Don't be in a hurry. Don't be in a hurry. I remember. I think he was, I think Big Z was a third rounder by the Islanders. I was in Ottawa when we made that trade for him. We sent a yasin to, to the Islanders with I think a pick. We swapped picks. We ended up with him and Bill Mcca, and then the history from there.

It's, we all know what. we went on to, and the reason we ended up with him, Marshall Johnston, who built the New Jersey Devils, Jesus. He's, I think he's the, oh Jesus, 248 man games per player. No one. He built the team for Lou. And when Lou was a GM, and, but he worked for the Islanders, Marshall Johnston, long, long [00:24:00] resume playing with the Golden Seals.

He knew Chara, and we ended up with him. We flipped picks. I think we picked Spencers that year when I was there. So this is, everybody matures in a different time. I'm hoping more parents understand it, but I think the money has a lot to do with it. There's a lot invested.

Everybody's in a hurry and it's not, I don't think it's correct, but it's hard to tell somebody, right? Yeah. 

[00:24:29] John Boruk: 100%. And. So let's get a little bit into why you started and organized the Liberty Bell Games. Give us a little background into what it is and what you're, what you were really looking to accomplish when you started this showcase, which I believe is a showcase that takes place in the mid-Atlantic region here in the Philadelphia area every June.

 [00:24:55] Lew Mongelluzzo: Yes it is. My, I was, believe it or not, I was on a pair of [00:25:00] figure skates from the time I was 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. And that probably helped me cuz I, I was a really good skater and I had to cuz I wasn't very big. But my cousins my father's brother Andrew had a son, Joe. They lived far. And they played hockey.

And one day he said to my dad, you're gonna get Lewis playing hockey. So I think it rides 10 or 12, 11 there. I started playing hockey. All these years have gone by and I just looked how expensive the sport is. . I wanted to try to find a way to give our local kids, which it's grown a little bit in the sense that we do, we bring kids from Long Island now and stuff like that.

But it wasn't Atlantic District Event, east of Harrisburg, south of Wilkesboro, Philly, Jersey. Back in ‘09, the idea to bring them to one location, bring people down here to watch them , excuse me, and. and [00:26:00] go from there and showcase our kids. Cause we do have a lot of talent here. There isn't anywhere in the world that a mid-Atlantic player from Pennsylvania, jersey Long Island can go and not beat anybody.

We can, no. We can beat Canadians. We can beat Europeans. We've had numbers of, by the numbers of kids played on the US world Junior team, the U-18 team, all from Pennsylvania, Jersey. Mike Richter played for me. I was an assistant with the Junior Flyers back in 82. Went on to Northwood, Wisconsin.

Obviously we all know the history of Mike. He was from Flourtown, so I wanted to give something back as well. So we started out in oh nine and I remember gee, Goudreau, John's dad, John, and Matt's father. I said, send me your kids we're over at Hatfield the first year. And he said, oh, everybody's saying scouts are gonna come.

They never come. . He said to me a few years back, you did it. And we had Hatcher and John Stevens's boys there as well. So that was our [00:27:00] premise. And it's grown quite a bit actually, obviously. You know what kind 

[00:27:04] John Boruk: You talk about scouts, are we talking about college scouts coming out to watch, cuz this is 14, 17 year olds.

 [00:27:12] Lew Mongelluzzo: Yeah. The idea was to bring in prep school coaches and college coaches, some pro people were there. We named our trophy on the boy's side, the Bob Crocker Memorial Championship trophy. Bob passed away at 90 at three Stanley Cups. He's a legend in New England. He's in the Massachusetts Hall of Fame and they would come down him and at the time I think he was with the Rangers.

And then Ed Olgan will come from Washington, a Bob Cini, Carolina, and Paul Merritt from Buffalo. Some of these men have passed away since then. Yeah, and it was, that was our premise is that we've got a really great product here and we're gonna show everybody we do. And at the same time, that did bother [00:28:00] some youth programs because, kids do leave, they go north, they go west.

But I think at the same time, we're all in this to move forward and make a future for our children. So I think the clubs have been pretty good about it. The managers, the coaches, the organizers of these organizations. For the most part. I do run into once in a while. Someone will say I don't want my kid leaving.

No one wants your best player leaving. You know what I'm saying? But you're either for the kid or you're not. Isn't that the essence of it? 

[00:28:33] John Boruk: Yeah. And what I find is interesting and you know this in talking with parents is that they're always chasing something.

What is it that they're chasing? Is it that, and I see this more than anything, is they're chasing wins. They're chasing team almost Team success. And now you know, you have with my hockey rankings, no matter what level it is, you can see where your team is particularly ranked and you want to [00:29:00] be, Hey, I think that, the barometer for my child is to put him on a top 20 team.

And I don't necessarily believe that's the case. So where, what should, if you're a parent of a child in, in, in that 12 to 15, 12 to 16 year old range, what should you be? Chas? 

[00:29:18] Lew Mongelluzzo: Listen, like I said, I'm not an expert in youth hockey by any means. I've been removed from that for a while except for the showcase that I provide as an exposure platform.

What I will say is that on the winning thing I, I don't know if it's a whole saying, I don't even know if I have it right towards Washington or maybe Kennedy even may have re-quoted it. I am not even sure. A champion has a thousand parents in and an orphan has not, and a loser has is an orphan or whatever.

Something to that relevance. You follow me, right? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. So you wanna be on. You wanna be on a good team, right? You wanna, you want to be [00:30:00] you wanna be win on a winning team. No one wants to be on a losing team. But, so you do see these teams get formulated by different coaches around where we're gonna have a really good team, we're gonna be top 10 team.

I hear the expression, I heard it this weekend by a number of parents. Oh, we're ranked here. We're gonna be doing this. And that, that, that's important. It's not the only thing. You gotta get better. You can be. A really good team, and I and I know you know this, so you've often heard a player in any sport say, oh, I played with, there'll be a guy in the NHL or a guy in the NFL and a guy will come along and have a beer and have something eat, and they'll say, oh, I played with him in high school.

And we were great. Yeah, and you won and that was great. But then that guy you were with, he went on to be a pro. You follow me? Because his game just developed and your game didn't develop. So I think develop is certainly going forward. It's great to be on good teams and popular teams and winning teams and that's, that, that's [00:31:00] important.

But development is really the essence of, cause eventually you're gonna move from one team to another and then you're not gonna see Johnny Jones anymore, cuz you're gonna be in somewhere different part of the country. And if you're developing and he's not, then that's the landscape and that's what happens.

So I think development, and that's part of winning too. Dev winning culture, development culture of that way is I, you know what I'm saying? So 

[00:31:23] John Boruk: It is and that's why I think that if you if you're gonna chase, chase the coach that you feel most comfortable with or the coaching element and the structure of the program that puts your child in the best position to succeed you may not even have a winning record.

And I don't necessarily think that's all important. I think it's more important to be competitive. You don't wanna be a team that's gonna get blown out. Nine, one, ten one and just demoralizes a. Because then that's an easy way to become disinterested. But it's an understanding that it's part of a [00:32:00] much bigger a much bigger formula, right?

In the sense that if you're a top 10 team and your record is 58, 7 and two, it's not very challenging. It just gets, it can get to be very ho. . So I, that's what I kinda like to, if you know those middle of the PAC teams you always have something to strive for. That's what I like to do, is I like to see that there's always something to push towards, something to accomplish, something to aim your sights on.

And always being on that top five, top 10 team you're on a top five team. There's only so many teams that you're, you can play because. You start to play down and play teams in the 30 40 range, you're looking at 71 81 games all the time. 

[00:32:45] Lew Mongelluzzo: Yeah. Look, we all know you learn a hell a lot more from losing than winning in a lot of ways.

Failures like, failure's a real eyeopener. Huh? . Yeah. When you really think about it, right? And you don't find as much adversity when [00:33:00] you're on a really good team and, so for me I think that's the development part of it. It’s important.

Having fun is very important because if you not having fun, Hey, I have a couple parents this last year came to me, their kids been playing since they were six. Kid comes home, long Island friend of mine and said, my kid doesn't wanna play kids 17. My kid doesn't wanna play hockey anymore. Mom and dad were crushed that he didn't wanna play hockey anymore.

They're thinking, what do you mean? I just wanna go to college. I don't wanna put the time in. I don't wanna be with my. Mom and dad couldn't even believe it. It's the type of thing where this happens and it happens a fair bit. And as we talk about the Liberty Bell, like I just wanted to finish what we're talking about.

 [00:33:53] John Boruk: So we're now, this is our 15th anniversary, right? Yeah. It started in two what, 2009? 

[00:33:55] Lew Mongelluzzo: Correct. And we're 15th anniversary and we're 350 [00:34:00] players. Division one, I think we're 35 draft. The Girouxs, the Egress, the LA Banks, the DeAngelos have all been here. We have a girls event obviously too, but on the boys event I try to tell people, not everybody's a division one player and we have kids there walk 216 boys from an ‘06 to ‘07, ‘08 range.

And a bus kids will probably have. We'll probably have 30 division one players and we'll probably have 50 or 60 division three players if we walks. Some kids that are gonna to play club team and they'll have a good time too. And they'll have fun. They'll play Division one club and they'll go to college at a Rutgers or a Penn State where they have a club team as well, or and that's important too to continue the game of hockey, the game they love and they love playing it.

Not everybody's a. obviously. So in, in that aspect of it all, I think that's all [00:35:00] important. It's, hockey's got a lot of different levels. I think it's got some real challenges as we talked about, outlets, places to play, levels of play, and I think that it's a real challenge for kids to get where they really dream they want to get to, and some don't get there, to be honest.

Yeah. And that's just part of life, right? 

[00:35:22] John Boruk: So if you, if you're a parent, you have a 14-to-17 year old hockey player and you want 'em to be part of the Liberty Bell Games what do they have to do? Is it something that, that you just take teams or if they individually want to participate, can they do that as well?

[00:35:37] Lew Mongelluzzo: What we've done is when we've really been blessed and maybe lucky too when we started it I'm never, and it's not a one man show. We got lots of people involved. I got a staff of eight or nine that scout these kids. We, and they work for other teams as like stipend guys for, we have guys in the USHL.

Guys in the Ontario Hockey League, that watch kids in the Mid-Atlantic [00:36:00] states for their job and we pay them too to do the same job. It's an individual sign up. There are rules, we don't, the NCA, we don't invite kids. Kids sign up and then we can select kids.

We put them on teams. We rate them. We have a database. We size, strength, finesse. We defense forward. We try to put them, we try to make 'em even the best we can. We bring people in to watch the kids play. It's an individual signup. We're actually almost, we'll be following another week or two and then we'll play in June.

Yeah that's basically how it works. Some people say, oh, I didn't get a letter. We don't invite you, you're in the area. Most kids know what it is. It's not for every kid by any means. We, we've told many kids, no, every year, but it's competitive.

It's. I [00:37:00] think you're not around 15 years if it's not fairly well done, so 

[00:37:04] John Boruk: Yeah, you've right. Refined it. I do wanna get into a little bit in, in your professional resume. And how you've talked about discuss Chris Drury, Mike Richter, Tim Thomas all you're talking about Hall of Fame type players with such a, an incredible resume of work and what they've done.

But you, obviously Chris Drew's not a, isn't the talent of Connor McDavid, Tim Thomas was considered unconventional in the way that he went about the gold tending position. But when. Really think and do a deep dive into to players like this. What did you see and what did they have that maybe it wasn't just that, that someone with just a regular eye watching them out on the ice may not have seen.

And in other words, did you see a competitiveness to, to, to the way that they went about their business? Did you see something? [00:38:00] An intangible that maybe just doesn't exist in other players. But what was it about guys like that?

[00:38:05] Lew Mongelluzzo: They're all different. Okay. And I'll give you we have some times I'll like, so with Mike Richter played for myself and Bruce Craig at the Junior Flyers.

It was a Little Flyers organization. We had a junior team . Mike was an unbelievably hard worker. There isn't nothing. His brother Joe went to Colgate. They both went to Northwood Prep in Lake, in the CAC, lake Placid area. He was an extreme, five 11 and a half, 5-10, 5-11 I guess.

But extremely hard worker, right? Undersized compared to today. So with him, you, you drafted by the Rangers, obviously, like you never there was never Noah, that guy, like that guy would stay at, we play, we played at the stadium one year in Havertown. We controlled the rink a little bit there [00:39:00] and we would work on wraparounds.

We like that guy. Was a workaholic. And you knew he was talented too. Remember way back when Ed Snider had Hockey Central headed up by Andy Abramson we called, I think Andy called Vera and said, I got this kid here. We got this kid here from Pennsylvania. , he says he's really good and he said, you better be right.

And obviously I'm friends with Lew. I know Lew. And it turns out as we were right and he went on to, to do great things for himself. Chris Drury was another hard, extremely hard worker, real warrior, not undersized as well. Maybe he's five 11. He was a real little guy when we drafted him.

He might have been 5-9. And he was another extremely hard worker. And, for him he got, he went to Japan, he says 76 born, I believe he went to Japan on the under [00:40:00] 17 team. He did not get invited to the junior national. I spoke to Art Burgland who's passed away now about that, and he says, wow.

He's Fairfield Prep kid, where his brother, I believe, went Ted. And he said, Brian Swanson's got a hundred points in Omaha. This kid's a high school player. And I said, but it doesn't, you're gonna see, spoke with Jeff Jackson about it. And Chris just said, I'll just use this as a motivator.

When he went on to, we went to BU, and from there he won the Hobie Baker too, right? And then he was, yeah, obviously people know him as a Little League World series pitcher, right? In Connecticut, he, I think the team in Connecticut won a Little League World series. He was a pitcher, so people know him that as well went on to BU the great career drafted by Quebec.

I think 74th overall and in Hartford that year. Not the first day, cuz I think the first day there were two round. That was a good draft that year. That was hey Duke as well. And Tim [00:41:00] Thomas was in that draft. But Chris wasn't the best skater by any means. He was very intelligent, very hardworking.

He had a goals in mind. There was no nonsense with him of a quiet fella. And then Tim Thomas was a, he was just this unorthodox player that, we went to see some guys that. In the draft in college, cuz there weren't many, cuz of the age and stuff like that. A lot of kids were taken before that and went him to watch him play.

I believe he was on the team with parent and St. Marty, St. Louis, I think. I don't think Aaron Miller was on that team. But anyway, cuz he was also a Nordic Aaron Miller. In the. He was just a guy that kind of stopped the puck. And then we went to talk to him one time and he wouldn't even wanna talk to us.

He was a very different kid. Good guy. Said, he's going through a lot in his life, obviously. All those guys won Stanley Cups. They're [00:42:00] all in the US Hockey Hall of Fame. But they're all different, but all work very hard and that might be a common denominator. They were furious workers, but a note on. I remember some teams, some guys in New England that work for NHL teams really have some power. They have a lot of clout and they can get guys drafted where other people could not. So there, and there's a lot of good hockey in the New England area, certainly in the Mid-Atlantic states.

I remember when we we were draft, we were gonna draft him and we hadn't interviewed him. And Dave Draper, who was the Chief Scout and amateur at the time, Pierre Lacroix taken over and he said we want to interview him. And I said, no, we don't. He goes, what do you mean we interview everybody? No, we're not interviewing this kid.

Do not kick your hand. Kids talk to other kids. Teams, ask other teams. Or I asked the kids who's, who you know, who's interviewed you, whatever. Don't let anybody know. We like them. And I'll tell you what, it was one of the best moves. I had [00:43:00] to pat myself on the back because in the end it was a great move because the Rangers and Bob Crocker, almost every game I had been to, Bob Crocker had been there and they had, they were behind us.

I think a few picks behind and they were gonna take them. , that was my bit of advice to management. Let's not, don't mess it up. Okay. . And so that's pretty much it on those guys, no. 

[00:43:27] John Boruk:. Yeah. And that Tim Thomas, that's a great story in the sense that it just, the way that he evolved a, as a player, his best years were in his thirties, right?

You take a look at the success that he had and putting up the Gotti numbers, but he wasn't one of those that's that was projected to have all the success early on. You see the Rick DiPietros of the world, right? Taking number one overall, Marc-Andre Flury, number one, overall, Tim Thomas didn't have that sort of they weren't projecting that for him, but [00:44:00] all he did, like you said, no matter how odd he may have navigated the.

He just had success. He just found a way to stop the puck and he had a flare about him. He had a temperament about him and that's what I really liked. It's just, it's stories like that I think that make the game so interesting. 

[00:44:19] Lew Mongelluzzo: Yeah. He I'll tell you a story about him. We, when we, I remember when we drafted him Brian Masada, who went to Hodgkins School, who went to RPI, and then Maine was drafted by OT.

In 94 and when he got picked Sherry Basson, Shirley Basson, who was, who led offshore the Memorial Cup. And then the Sue Saint Marie said to me, he's not on your list. And I go, don't worry about him. But there is a guy on my list that can play. And that's how we got to Thomas. And when we drafted him, we send the kids bag in their jersey and whatever.

Most kids don't show up for the later rounds, and nobody wants to [00:45:00] get disappointed and get left sit in the stands, which, John does happen, right? Okay. Yep. Yep. When they're there and I called him, it said, Tim, it's Lu Mangi Luso. With the Quebec Nordiques and we drafted you well boom.

And he says, ah, come on John, you guys, I hate when you do this to me. I evidently sounded just like some, a friend of his, and he actually wrote this in a blog that I saw years ago where he tells this story about, didn't even know my name of this guy, calling him from the Nord Easts saying that we drafted you and that he didn't really.

So that's an interesting story. Like he didn't even, he thought it was all a big lie. It was a big joke. And so he found out it was obviously. So it's funny and and it's funny, before I don't forget what I wanted say, I'm writing a book I think I mentioned it to you when we met the other night there from Broad Street to the National Hockey League.

How a street hockey [00:46:00] kid made it to the show. And all this is gonna be in it, it's gonna be really good. I don't know when I'm gonna actually do it but I am planning on doing it. I for sure am. 

[00:46:09] John Boruk: You got five. Yeah. You got five decades of experience to draw on. So you it. It could be a very thick book if you wanted it to be.

One I do want, I did want to ask you. Yeah. I did want to ask you. Yep. Because you were also part of the US National Junior Team. I think. 2004, and I was looking over the roster and I correct, I believe one of the players on that team was Patrick O’Sullivan. Am I correct on that? That's correct.

Patrick O. Sullivan. Yep. Yep, that's correct. If so I, and I'm asking parents out there to Google, Patrick O'Sullivan, he wrote a story for the Player's Tribune and it was really heartbreaking to read because you've got a sense of how parents can push and to what le but this is [00:47:00] extreme.

Did you know about the, know about Patrick's story as you were Yes. Putting this team together and how much his father really it was almost, it was really mentally abusing what he had to endure. And he put all this in writing. So I'm not saying anything that, that Patrick O. Sullivan hasn't already shared with the hockey community.

It's just it's, it was just, eye opening to read that the very first time. And you obviously have been part of, you were, you saw him firsthand and was part of that development. 

[00:47:33] Lew Mongelluzzo: Yeah, he was always a very good player. Back, I think some of the district guys from New Jersey actually played a role in some I did too, but they, after me of kids that went to national camp and some of the kids guys from Jersey were at national camp and they had seen him there as a 14, or maybe I was 15 year old. But he was always a [00:48:00] towny kid. I didn't know him that well. He was a nice kid.

I always liked him. And I do remember in ‘03. When we went to Halifax I didn't know at the time, as the director of player personnel you, you're more invest involved at the hockey and trying to make sure everything's right. Louver was our coach with Mike Hastings, who's at Minnesota State now, and Ronnie Ralston, I believe was it Providence now.

And long and short of it he made our club okay. And yeah, the father, I don't know a lot about it, but I do know that Don, me and at Newport represented him and he was a talented kid. I'm gonna say Minnesota drafted him, but I can't write remember, to be quite honest with you. But we were worried, [00:49:00] we were very worried.

I didn't find out so much about it early on, but when we got to Afax I'm almost a hundred percent sure we actually brought a US Marshal with us. Wow. We didn't, I believe we, I remember them telling me, I was privy to it cuz it was above me. It was more with Randy Gregorio, the president of U S A hockey.

And Tony Rossi, who was in Chicago, who was on the board, junior council. I think we brought a US Marshall on that trip cause we weren't concerned about. Because we didn't know what as it's public, right? Obviously. Yes. Yeah. We didn't know really what the dad was up to my understanding.

And that's my understanding of it. But that was in Halifax. Okay. So he, that's the year before you're talking about. Okay. Then we, then that, [00:50:00] just so you know it, we didn't mention that, but I'm telling you the story. So then the next year we're in Helsinki, obviously, right? The ’04 team.

Okay. And then there, I don't remember any kind of issue at all other than. We won the whole thing, which was the first time that the Americans had won it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. To that point, so yes. 

[00:50:23] John Boruk: Yeah. Yeah. But it's Patrick Os like I said, I, every now and then I'll catch some stories on Players Tribune and they're very revealing, and that's what I like is players to open up themselves to their past, their experience, their mindset.

And the Patrick O’Sullivan, I remember him with the I believe the La Kings and he was a promising, very promising player, and you wondered, Hey, what whatever happened to that player that he had so much potential and didn't seem to pan out? And what you don't realize is the demons and the battles that they're faced with and, and in the back of [00:51:00] their head and why sometimes it doesn't translate, has nothing to do with the game of hockey.

And that was a, that was, that was one.  

[00:51:06] Lew Mongelluzzo: Yeah, I never read his, you wrote a book. I understand. Okay. Yeah. I never read the book. I just know that he always had a smile on his face. And that was my first encounter with him. He was a very talented kid. He, I think he, he may have been, it's been a while now.

I think he was one year at the national team and then went to Major Junior, I think. So he didn't play two years, I don't think he played two years in Ann Arbor, which is where the national team was based at the time. Now it's in Plymouth. I knew him and we, he came to tryout and we had camp and that was the way it went.

We had a good team at oh three. We lost, Tim Gleason was injured and who else was injured? Ho Ryan HOK was injured. He was a western kid. Toronto, we drafted him. So we had some injuries on that team, [00:52:00] which we lost three, two to Canada. They had 11 power plays to our four and then eventually we played the next year.

And so I'll tell you a funny story. Patrick skated well, he had a big shot. He was a talented kid. And we obvious. I like to tease my Canadian friends because we, obviously, we, that's the play where, and you'll remember it where flurry threw the puck, shot the puck off of Colburn, and it went in into net.

You know what I'm saying? Oh yeah. 2004. And, and it, and that's the play where Patrick O’Sullivan went down the right, I believe it was the right side, and took a slap shot. And it, flurry made the stop that the rebound had come out. and nine times outta 10, Pat would've walked back up the wall.

But on that specific occasion, he followed the shot and Fleury had no choice but to come out and get it. Cause O’Sullivan was baring down on him and then that's in the panic mode. He threw it off, off, [00:53:00] away and he hit Coburn and went in the net. And all my Canadian friends would say, oh, you got lucky.

And I said, isn't it interesting when Canada does that, you say, we found a way to get it. . Yeah. Americans. 

[00:53:12] John Boruk: We got a lot to do. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:53:15] Lew Mongelluzzo: It's just looking at that roster, that roster, I like it. It's, and you'll get this cuz you've been around this area for a long time.

I I think you, you grew up in this area, John? I'm not even sure, actually.  

[00:53:29] John Boruk: No, I can't. I came a few years afterwards at 2014. I got here in 2006. Yeah. No, but I'm. 

[00:53:36] Lew Mongelluzzo: Where are you originally from? Cause I, I probably don't 

[00:53:38] John Boruk: know. Oh, yeah. From the the Dallas Fort Worth Texas area, but I, yeah, I had come here from Detroit having covered, the, those, that Red Wing powerhouse team with all of those Hall of Famers that were on there.

[00:53:52] Lew Mongelluzzo: So did you And that junior team, Mark Stewart played in the NHL. Matt Carle played in the NHL. Hung, played the [00:54:00] NHL. Suter played the NHL.  

[00:54:01] John Boruk: Oh, yeah. I checked out that roster that roster's very impressive. Kesler, 

[00:54:08] Lew Mongelluzzo: Stafford, Wisniewski, Bruce Richie. Yeah. Montoya. And so that was a, and that was a well-coached team too by Mike ees.

Mike E coached the ‘04 team with John Hines and Kenny Martel. Jimmy Johansen was our team leader. He's passed away since then. And but I will say that was a pretty good group of players. They weren't, those kids weren't bums by any means, I can tell you that. And they weren't favorites either, right?

Yep. That's, it's that's been the way it is. It's been pretty good, I think, and all. Yeah, 

[00:54:41] John Boruk: You can take a lot of pride in the team that you're now currently employed by the New Jersey Devils, cuz it appears that they now have the framework of a roster that is gonna be good for a long time and probably the best roster since their Stanley Cup days back in the 1990s and early two thousands.

[00:54:58] Lew Mongelluzzo: Yeah I [00:55:00] enjoy there. I enjoy the people there that I work with. Play a small role, a little different than I did for a lot of Tom Fitzgerald's been there for a while. New General Manager after Ray Shero. We've made some trades. We've been patient. We're young. We've made some good acquisitions.

The Vanek trade picking up him from Washington for a fifth rounders is been, has been terrific. Considering we thought, we didn't know where he'd be, but he's, I think he's 27 and six or something like that. Some, used is obviously, probably better than some people may have thought, although they wouldn't wanna admit that he's been great.

He'll probably score close to 50. We have his brother coming. Keisha's a good leader. Hamilton's been good. We picked up Meyer as everybody knows. It's, I [00:56:00] think we've been patient and Marino was a good acquisition. It's not easy. Ownership I'm sure is demanding on Tom and Dan McKinnon and Marty's there as well.

But we're enjoying it. We'll see. You gotta win in the playoffs, so we'll see where we end up finishing and who we face. But I like it. I still like going to the rink. I don't get up to see them that much. . I will say this though. Someone asked me this the other day on another show, a while back about scouting, and I take a personal oath in what I do and what I mean by that is I know that I can change a child's life.

I can change a man's life. I know that I can. Now we have girls obviously, which is all pro league. We have girls at Liberty ball games. So these, the kids are kids, boys are girls. They love playing and I don't think anybody loves it anymore. They love playing. So we try to make an impact on a young woman or a [00:57:00] young man's life.

And so I take a personal oath that I just go to the rink and it's just not Billy Dolly, it's not romper room. We, I watch it carefully. I watch everything. And I ask a lot of questions. And so I think that's important. And I, we had a young man whose father was incarcerated a few years ago at the Liberty Ball games, and we brought him and he ended up going to prep school and now he's playing college hockey.

There's so much pride in that cuz I think we, we may have changed that child's course of life. You follow me, right? Yes. Yeah. Yes. And that's important, right? That's really important. It's impactful, I think it is. I think it's important for me. I don't know.

Most, maybe people don't feel this way. Everybody. I certainly do that. I want to be able to do the right thing. I want to be a great custodian of the sport and a guardian of the game. We all need to survive. We all need to make money, [00:58:00] but there's a way to do it. And I think that's important. And I think someday when I am gone, cuz we're all gonna be gone at some.

People look back and say, wow, that he was a decent seller. Yeah. That's important. 

[00:58:13] John Boruk: I always, yep. 

[00:58:14] Lew Mongelluzzo: I think that's the way 

[00:58:15] John Boruk: I always enjoyed, always enjoyed our time in the press boxes, sharing stories, swapping information, and I'm so glad that we actually ran into each other down in Prince or up at Princeton for a Princeton, Harvard game.

So that was that was great. And to have you on, Lou, thank you so much. It's so much good information and tapping, yeah, tapping into your expertise, as we said, five decades in the sport. Just fantastic. So Lew Mongelluzzo thank you so much. We'll do it. Hey. 

[00:58:46] Lew Mongelluzzo: Hey. Thank you, John. Have a great day. All right.

[00:58:49] John Boruk: We're gonna end our show with our quote of the week from the Reform Sports Project. Being a great sports parent is not hard. It's knowing that youth sports is about the kids and making sure it's their time. Youth sports should [00:59:00] never be about the parents and their agendas because parents, You've already had your time.

Sounds like something the great Herb Brooks would've said. All right, thanks again to all of you for listening. Be sure to subscribe to us wherever you listen. You can find us on Apple Podcast, Spotify Google Music, you name it, we're out there. And then w with that, give us a review. If it's not a five star review, that doesn't matter.

We just want to have your review as well. And thanks to everybody for listening. We'll see you next time.