John Boruk: [00:00:00] Welcome into the podcast that focuses on the 15 billion industry of youth sports and how you can mold a champion physically, socially, mentally, and educationally for life. My guess today is somebody you're gonna get a wealth of information out of. He's a high performance strength trainer's. Been doing it for 20 years.

He majored in exercise science, a fitness specialist from Westchester University, Jim Ferris. Thanks so much for coming on. Thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely. You graduated around 2001, 2002, and your first job, essentially out of school was working with the Philadelphia 70 Sixers. Am I correct?

Jim Ferris: Correct. Yeah. The way I can explain that is if you're given the keys to a Ferrari, do you turn 'em. You don't turn the, you don't turn down. You don't, you didn't really know 

John Boruk: how to drive it? 

Jim Ferris: You're gonna learn. I'm gonna figure it out. You're gonna figure it out, so I worked for a big time sports agent at [00:01:00] affiliate to open a sports training facility in Villanova.

And I was an intern for my first three, four months. And I, I went on in various roles. . That's what got me to the level of the NBA and the Sixers and the network that, I still carry today. Now you have a fleet of Ferrari? I have a fleet. You have a fleet of Ferrari, but I drive a Honda crb.

John Boruk: You are a modest guy. But what was that like? Working with at a young age of Philadelphia, 76 ERs, Cuz I'm sure in some regards. You were a little overwhelmed. These are guys who are already I'm sure Alan Iverson comes to you and says, this isn't a game. It's not a game.

Jim Ferris: Do you want me to do when you're supposed to be studying for finals and you're playing NBA2K or whatever it's called back then on Genesis, PlayStation, . Yeah. And then you walk in and you get to see these guys. It was eye opening. Yeah. [00:02:00] And. It's taught me a lot for what I'm supposed to do as a professional in this industry.

There's the standard of what we're supposed to do from a teaching and a school side. And then there's the reality of business and professional sports and what you learn with the politics, how things go. So I'm happy I learned it at a young age, cuz if I was still chasing it now some of the stuff I'd be like, really this is what we do.

John Boruk: That was essentially the only time that you've worked with professional athletes. At the highest level. 

Jim Ferris: So on a team side of things? On a team side. Okay. Yeah. From that, I've worked with agents and I've done MBA, combine stuff, and I've trained overseas.

Like I was in China in 2016 doing CBA work. But yeah, so for me, the Sixers role led me to a networking role in Philadelphia. 

John Boruk: That's irreplaceable. The opportunity to network at that level, and to build your brand. [00:03:00] Yeah. You, that's, that was almost worth it in itself.

Jim Ferris: Yeah, a hundred percent. Like last year not even like looking for it. Like I, I worked with Mac McClung, so Mac McClung was the YouTube like sensation Dunker outta Georgetown, transferred to Texas Tech. He's with Golden State now, and I trained him for his whole combine just because my relationship with guys from the Sixers and the Sixers staff. I got It's an easy referral. 

John Boruk: Yeah. A fellow Red Raider. Thank you. Yeah. Appreciate it. 

Jim Ferris: He is, he should make it. He's gotta get a guaranteed contract. 

John Boruk: Yeah. That's good. In terms of, what you do now, you had to find your niche.

What is, what, how would you describe specifically what you do and what is your niche? Or is it just, is it broad and so knowledgeable that you can apply your expertise to any sport at any level? 

Jim Ferris: age? Of [00:04:00] course, I'm gonna say any sport, any level, yes. Like I'll take the job, but. The broad side of things, it's great because I like to keep getting exposed to different things cuz it gets me, it gets you out of your norm where you get clothes in a box and it's you don't see anything else out there.

So it's what am I not getting exposed to? What am I not being around? So when I went private practice 2009, I worked for a state soccer club. I worked for various high schools around the area and did different sports and just got exposed to different things. And that kind of just set me up for where I was like, All right, I can see where the trends go.

I can see where things are with kids and what I can do to be, whether it's a middle person, a liaison, fill the gaps. And my job is not to go against anybody, but to play that middle person and be like, Look like I get what you want. I get what they want. I get what the parents and the kids want, [00:05:00] but here's where I can interject.

Now for the betterment of the kid, which is what it's supposed to be about, right? The kid is supposed to be the one that we're focusing on. It's not about the club winning games, not about the AAU, it's about development. Winning. Yes, it's about development. Development, right? Like how can we help this kid develop the same way you can help a kid develop in English history, science, and math, like they're in a developmental stage.

John Boruk: Help them. That's it. And that's really the focus of, this podcast and what we're talking about. So let's take it from the child and I think that you're, you work with kids as early as age 6, 7. 

Jim Ferris: Okay. A hundred percent, yeah. Okay. 

John Boruk: Yeah. So at that age, somebody, parent decide that they want to employ your services, they want to, Sonya, my, my kid needs, Whatever it is at that particular age, what's the emphasis at the age of six or seven?

To [00:06:00] me, it's just about pure enjoyment of the game. At that point you're just learning the basic elements of whatever sport it is you're playing. 

Jim Ferris: Yeah. And all general skills of it, right? It, I'm not, you're not gonna bring me into a group of seven year old kids and be like, This is a sports specific training session.

It's what tools can I help these kids get to help them? Play sports, and develop along the way, right? Because you're gonna deal with things with growth, development, puberty, like things that get in the way where it's like they don't know how fast they're gonna grow or how much weight they're gonna gain, or where they're gonna step into next in terms of what team they go to or trainer.

But I can help them understand like, ‘Hey’, this is how you move. This is what you need to do. This is what you have to get done and enjoy it so you can play your sport. That's it. 

John Boruk: Working with parents, how challenging is that? 

Jim Ferris: Very, because everyone's chasing the Jones', the Johnson's [00:07:00] dismiss, right? So the best kid on the best team becomes the person that you're chasing from a training side of things.

And like I just said, all those factors are included. It's if the kid is. Nowadays it's like you have a kid that's in eighth grade, but he is actually 17 cuz he stayed back twice and transferred schools and stuff like that. It's a challenge, but can you get parents to understand where that kid is in terms of their developmental path and what they need to get?

Like what is the next step? Listen, no one told me in eighth grade that someone was coming to watch me. Colleges were looking at me when I was 12, right? It starts that early. Yeah. They're coming. They have you marked down, you're number 398 in the state of Pennsylvania, but nationally, you're this and you're just like how do I get better?[00:08:00] 

It's you need to do this, and this. And you're like, Okay, how about you just develop and grow and get better? Mature. A lot of it's mature. Naturally. Naturally, yeah. But play other sports, do other things and I grew up and we played soccer, We played basketball 12 months a year.

We didn't compete 12 months a year in those sports. And I think, I don't have science on it, I don't have data, but there's definitely something with it. Psychologically how kids respond to 12 months a year of competition. Could you imagine gonna school at eight years old and not having summer vacation?

John Boruk: No, That wasn't even a question. So once you got into the summer months, it was family time, it was vacation time, and three months felt like three years.  

Jim Ferris: Yeah, it did then, yeah. So now it's like you have a kid that's gonna pick up a basketball at age seven and they're like, Is that your sport?

And the kid's [00:09:00] is it. I don't know. Yeah, it's your sport. That's where you're gonna play. You're gonna college for it in 2029 and you're like, . Okay. 

John Boruk: I still today to this day, and I blame Sports Illustrated, cuz I used to be a subscriber and they would say, Here's, they would give you a picture.

With the synopsis. Here's the best eighth grader in the nation. The five kids down the right side of the page. Down the right side of the page. Here's the best seventh grader.   

Jim Ferris: They were always from California. They were always from California. Is That's how it worked. ? 

John Boruk: It's California or for Florida.

Whatever it was. I looked at this, I said, Are you kidding me? Let's just take the Little League World Series. I was up there for the first time. Yeah. You know where they had the Little League World Series? 1%. 1% of the kids that play in the Little League World Series will actually play a game at the major league level. So you can be outstanding at the age of what, 12, 13, whatever they are. 

That doesn't translate to anything. It just [00:10:00] doesn't, Yeah. And I'm sure you see it and the parents and you're currently working with you, you get contracted out to work with high school baseball teams like you're doing now, right?

Jim Ferris: High school basketball, lacrosse, like you name it. And it's like you see these kids and it's okay. and it's a hard thing for me because I'm not a parent, right? So it's cuz people are like, you have kids you know how you're doing this. I'm like, No. But I've been helping parents for 20 years and learning the business of sports and where like where your kid goes and I'm not saying I can just do it off a whim, but I can look at a kid and be like, You can go to Nova.

You're more Bucknell. You're more like this. How do you do that?   

John Boruk: Is it because talking to them, 

Jim Ferris: Is it seeing how they play? See, like knowing where their worth is, Knowing what the long term goal is, because it's listen, like if you just wanna, if you wanna start for four years, [00:11:00] I can be like, Okay, Bucknell might be your answer.

That's not throwing Bucknell into a low tier, but it's like you could go there for four years, your name can be in the rafters and you can kill it. You can go to Nova. Do you know why you're gonna go to Nova? Yeah, cuz I, I got a scholarship from okay, cool. They have seven all Americans ahead of you, so you know that Oh no I didn't.

Okay. So you might start your senior. But they're also gonna have some more  Americans coming after you. Coming after you, so it's all that stuff that I've learned over the years where I can interject myself and tell parents like, Look like I get what you want. And I'm not saying you do what you want, but like I'm gonna tell you what I see and I'm not trying to limit the potential.

But if I can give you a list of kids from my first 10 years in the industry to my last 12. Versus who stayed at a four year program and who has transferred, dropped [00:12:00] out, stopped. It's a whole different game nowadays because there's a lot of misguidance and there's a lot of chasing things that's is that really reality?

And is that what really what you want? 

John Boruk: You've been doing this long enough now 20 years, to where you've probably built up a nice, let's say, encyclopedia of what has worked, what hasn't worked, and then seeing kids. Let's say that you started working with a group, a team, whatever, at the age, 11, 12, 13, and now they're having success.

So how can I replicate that success? Because I've seen it. And I've seen that kid have success now at the collegiate level to, that's part of the program. Have you worked your way through that to where you can disseminate this piece of information, take that information, and really construct a really good program. 

Jim Ferris: When it's asked. I have to stick to the role that I'm hired for if I'm hired for speed, [00:13:00] agility, and strength training, like I stay with that.

And once I get the buy in and the results are coming in, I get more, questions from the parents and the kids, then I'll say, You know what I'm allowed to say, I try not to overstep because it's still a tough, it's a tough line because there's not just me, there's a skills coach for whatever sport that is saying their part.

There's a head coach, there's an AAU coach. So like I'm not the only like person that has experience and I don't know what they're saying to them about it. So I'm very careful about it, but it's I'm just like, I wish I could say more at certain points. 

John Boruk: There's so much. I do wanna jump back to the Philadelphia Sixers because one thing that I heard you.

In a previous podcast episode was NBA players don't even pick a, pick up a [00:14:00] basketball for the off season that they take the off season to do other things. Could be yoga, could be, as you said, Pilates could be, I don't know, weight training, but they're all specific maybe to their position, whatever, but they also know that there's a down period in time, whereas the kids, if they want to look at what an NBA player's doing this is what they're.

They're not necessarily playing year round. 

Jim Ferris: If we have stress management for a guy that's 28 years old making 32 million a year, 82 games. , but we don't have stress management for a 12 year old that plays six games over a weekend and then rolls in the Monday and goes into training, goes into another sport, goes in this, it's what are we doing? So the one thing I always tell people, I was like cause I do a lot of work with colleges and cuz [00:15:00] programs will call me and be like, how is this kid like, is he good? Should we take him on? And I'm always like, a freshman's not a freshman anymore. They're not fresh, they're old.

Like that 17 year old, 18 year old kid is really like a 25 year old. They're coming in with two ACLs. They're coming in with this and that at this point. And we never had that when we were kids. 

John Boruk: Wait. Yeah. Why is that? Why are we seeing more of that?  

Jim Ferris: It's overplay. It's overkill. Okay. And it's because it's not pointing at one thing being wrong, like the skills coach is not wrong, or the AAU or whatever, but it's, remember it's cumulative.

So we're all involved for the one kid. And the thing is, there's no communication between all the parties. So Johnny comes to me, or let's say Johnny wants to come to me on Monday at 6:00 PM and the parents are like, Johnny need speed work. He was really slow this weekend. I go, What'd he do? He played eight games.

I go, Oh, eight games. [00:16:00] And you were on the road in a hotel. He's got school eating garbage. Yeah. And then, okay, so I can get him in at six. And they go he's got a skills coach first at five 15. Oh my God. The skills coach, which is also gonna run him. You know what I mean? So there's all these, it's just, there's too much going on and it's a kid.

John Boruk: And that's how it all starts. The breakdown. Yeah. So the breakdown 

Jim Ferris: I believe that's where it all begins. 

John Boruk: because. Look, I grew up a little bit sooner than you did watching mid 80. And then Nolan Ryan came along. I just saw the documentary on Nolan Ryan. This guy's 5,700 strikeouts complete game after complete game.

Seven no hitters. If you want to go back even prior to that, Steve Carlton complete gamez. Now nobody throws complete games. Everybody's counting pitches. Everybody's so worried about the Tommy John surgery. How did we able to these guys who could throw 300 innings a season. to where now if they get [00:17:00] to 200, it's like a red light goes off.

Like how did it evolve like that? 

Jim Ferris: I think there I think we had to figure out who was like the first person we tried to stress manage. Like where it came from. Like the one thing, it always comes back to me. Cause it's Philly, it's Kobe, and there's a story about Kobe Bryant.

With the Olympics where he called the strength coach at two o'clock in the morning. You remember that one? And he is Can you come to the gym and rebound for me? And he rebounded for him until 5:00 AM And the strength coach like went back, went to bed and practiced, started at 11:00 AM and he came back and Kobe was getting interviewed and he was still like dripping sweat.

Yeah. And he goes, Oh man, are we interviewed? He goes, I had never left. And he was. It's like an applauded story, right? And like I always look at it and I go, whatever made [00:18:00] Kobe, Kobe made Kobe. It's like it's insane, but whatever got you there won't keep you there. There's a certain point where like you can't manage that same stress.

You have to learn to adjust and use the professionals around you to help you figure. What the dosage is that you can do because I honestly, I think we got robbed if Kobe, his last three to five years, cuz he was never playing, he was always hurt. But he had that mamba mentality where he is like, It was X, Y, and Z.

He's gonna do this and I'm gonna go to the gym. And no one would ever tell him no. And I think that's part of the problem with sports is like a professional, like in my position has to be able to be. No, like I'm cutting you. Like this is too much. Like we have it, whether it's data or not. Just time.

It's listen, yeah, we can. You're 30 something years old, you're not 19. We can help you. Like we can control this and you [00:19:00] can get another couple years. AKA Tom Brady. Who is 45. 45. Yeah. 

John Boruk: But the same even applies to basketball now. I never even heard the term load management until the last five, six years of the NBA.

I looked at guys like Michael Jordan, who went three or four years of playing all 82 games, winning defensive player of the year, MVP in those years in three championships, so it's now even applying to the NBA. I just, I'm trying to, when I look at what we're doing and how we're doing it. I question that are these guys as you? Are they way up there in sports years than they are in actual years? 

Jim Ferris: So talk basketball, right? And we'll talk football. If you lose the NBA championship tonight, NBA players will be on the court tomorrow. They'll play pickup. They'll go shoot. [00:20:00] If no one or Ryan lost game seven, would he pitch tomorrow?

No. If Jason Kelce lost his Super Bowl tonight would be he, would he be held football field till August? No. Basketball is a little different with some stuff and I'm sure other sports might have the same like hockey. Like hockey is the one sport I've trained where I literally have to stop guys from training in all aspects.

It's like you guys never stop. So it's just learning like where you can stop and control people and help them. For the long term game. So we said Mac McClung, right? And I when he walked in the door last year he shoots within beads. Guy Drew Hanlin. So he comes out to me in King of Prussia and I opened the door and we shake hands and I go, The first question I'll ask you before you've ever signed, how many contracts do you want?

And he looks at me and he goes, What do you mean? I go, How many contracts [00:21:00] do you want? How long do you wanna? and he goes, Huh? I go, Are you willing to listen to what I can do for you? And it's not trying to be snobby. It's cuz I know what you're doing. There's 160 hours in a week. I know how many hours you're on a court.

I know how many hours you play. I know what your diet is. I know what your sleep is like and here's where I can bring training into it. And it's not like you're not gonna come into the weight room with me tomorrow and tap out, puke. It's like I know what I have to do to fill gaps because my job is to make sure you get the next contract.

I can contribute to negativity for an athlete. And from my side of things, I'm the one I that I would say, knows the most to adjust because I understand what the other stuff does. And that's at all levels. Like I, I adjust for kids, I adjust for pros. It's like I know what cumulative stress does to a [00:22:00] person and what I can do from a professional side, You call me a strength conditioning coach.

Sure. Okay. But it's like I called you a high performance true strength, high performance . But even the stuff I do, it's like sometimes why can't we do this today? Why? Because you just did this. We wanna do an agility session. You just played basketball for 90 minutes. There's agility.

Yeah. The whole thing is agility, , the whole thing is cutting. Yes. . It's so that's where the challenge is in youth sports. It's like managing all these things for one kid, but 25 different parties. Because they're doing all these other things. Yeah. 

John Boruk: What age is it appropriate to start implementing weight training?

Jim Ferris: It's more of a maturity thing. Like you, you can get kids to move and work on patterns and stuff like that. Do position holds. Like you, you're not gonna [00:23:00] max it out. We're not gonna deadlift for, a max. But we can work on a hinge, we can work on a squat pattern, we can work on lunging and pushing, pulling as young as you want.

John Boruk: Are there certain exercises that you recommend early on just to get your body acclimated? 

Jim Ferris: What I think early on, because if you look at kids that do karate and they do martial arts or gymnastics, they have all the dynamics of those things involved. As we get older, we start to create patterns that we live in and we get stiffness, and all of a sudden you're like, Ah, I don't do that so well anymore.

So teaching the complex type stuff where you can do not saying Olympic lifts, but squatting overhead and things that just are like, ah why would we need that? You'll need it eventually because it's flexion of the whole body, [00:24:00] right? Ankles, knees, hips, shoulders, and moving freely before we start working.

You. Too much weight on a bar. Kid can't handle it, but it's like you get pushed in certain environments differently. Yeah. That was one thing. 

John Boruk: that I think growing up, you, I can still smell the rust from the old weight plates in our gym and stuff. And they don't really teach you back then they didn't teach you proper technique and how important it was. They don't 

Jim Ferris: teach you how to squat. How to squat. They teach you what to squat, right? And you're like squat like this guy that's on the board and you just look up. You're like all right, I'll keep trying. That guy squatted five 20 in 1968.

It's up there. Yeah. They have the records. But now it's like you can back squat. You can front squat, you can use a safety bar, you can use a kettle bell. You can, There's all these variations that it's about putting someone in position to get stronger, not forcing them by a specific way to load.[00:25:00] 

And that's another challenge that we have because it's, when you walk into a weight room, listen, like looking at a board and seeing numbers is awesome, like seeing PRs and seeing what people got. But it's does that transfer. Does it matter? It doesn't make you a pro athlete. No. I know a lot of weight room guys that were phenomenal, but like you put 'em on a, in a sports like nah, they don't know how to move their body for the sport.

Like physics matters in a lot of things. Like I always tell people like, Aaron McKee was one of my favorite players ever. And I think I can bench more than. But if Iron McKee puts his forearm on my back, , I'm not backing into him with the basketball. I can't move him. Yeah. Like it's, he's that big.

Kevin Durant, I don't know if he got 180 5 for one or two at the Combine test. Were you not gonna draft him? Yeah, he's gonna go like that when he extends his arm at six 11. [00:26:00] So the weight room, for me it's about like, how does it help you play your sport? It's not about the numbers that you perform.

I think we're just stuck with the combines and the things like that because there's, there's incentive to run those things and, but it doesn't mean progression always, and it doesn't mean like your value is better for 

John Boruk: your sport. I lo I love it when they have quarterbacks run a 40 , hey and the story of Tom Brady is something you can repeat over and over again. Guy runs a 5.3, 5.4, he. L like he should be bagging groceries or whatever and the guy turns out to be the greatest quarterback because the work that he's willing to put in off the field. 

Jim Ferris: That's it. Yeah. You're better off 

John Boruk: But it's an immeasurable attribute that any combine in the world will never give you the results of.

Jim Ferris: Yeah. You're better off like sticking a linebacker five yards behind him and saying, Go at the same time, make time run and he's gonna go. Sure. Yeah. [00:27:00] 

John Boruk: Another very, what I think very fascinating element of what you do and how your job has evolved over the years is some of the international work that you do.

And I want to get into that because what that does is that gives you perspective of what some of these younger kids and some of the athletic and sport programs in other sports, what they're doing with their kids. Maybe what doesn't work what does, But you, once again, you've got notebooks, mental notebooks of doing this.

So tell me about some of this. Some of the one, one of them is you have a soccer camp in Jamaica. 

Jim Ferris: Yeah. I go down every year for a week or so before Labor Day, and it's always humbling. You get down there, it's 90-something degrees. And I go up to a field and the field is rock, barely some grass.

And kids are coming from school cuz school starts earlier down there and they share [00:28:00] shin guards, they share spikes and you watch 'em pick up a soccer ball and I go, I don't even see this at home, what these kids can do with a ball. And I come down, I get brought down to be a conditioning guy. It's it.

Camouflaged, but it's more for me to help these kids understand what we can do and stuff like that. And we work 'em and they don't get water breaks. And I'm like, What'd you guys eat today? And it's Yeah, we had this. And I'm like, One meal, it's 3:00 PM it's 93 degrees out. And just to see what these kids can do, because that's all they know, right?

That's all they know. Like they don't know. Stress manage. They don't know, like corrective exercise and stuff that gets thrown around here or used to help manipulate ah, I can't go today. I need this. So when I think for me going to those places, it's man, are [00:29:00] we influencing people that feel like they're injured here in certain situations?

Ah, I gotta tank. Because Jordan never had that, right? , he played 82 games for whatever stretch. Tell no one, Ryan. He's not pitching in the rotation. Like you remember that? There was like, you just knew there wasn't like a chance those guys were missing a game. But now it's like, Yeah, can't do it.

Can't go. And I had a conversation with somebody and it was like about like Indeed and not getting mvp. This. And I just looked up some stuff. Cause I, I just enjoy stats. No MVP ever won, playing under I think 70 games. He just played the most games of his career this year and it was 68. 

John Boruk: . Yeah, because remember in his early years he was like held out almost every other game.

Jim Ferris: Yeah. I'm like, he played 68, that's the most he's ever played. And I'm like, I don't think you missed the game. And I was like, that's the [00:30:00] difference maker. That's like a whatever swing. 

John Boruk: So funny that you bring that up because this isn't a popular argument that I have, and I'm not, don't mean to get off, but I can't, I have a hard time putting Serena Williams as the greatest women's tennis player of all time when she's got a third of singles victories as Martina Navratilova.

So while she is great, right? No denying. But Martina Navratilova played in the Virginia Slims, and she played in all these tournament and accumulated all these single titles that Serena didn't do either because she was injured or she was always trying to recover to make sure she was in tiptop shape for one of the Grand Slams.

Jim Ferris: Right. And those are things you had to consider. Yeah. Like it counts like, it's but it's like, all going to these places like Jamaica, I was like, All right I, it's like you have to build resiliency in people. You can't make 'em feel like, How'd that feel today?

No. Sit down, You're not practicing, or you're getting outta this today. It's No, you know what? You can just [00:31:00] do this and you can get moving and get going. It's we don't need 45 minute warmups. Remember you would go play pick up basketball and you would just, how would you warm up?

You would shoot, you would play basketball at a lower intensity. And then all of a sudden just go Now it's like you have all these like specialized warmups and no, I can't do this until I get stretched. I can't play it's like we've, we have, my industry has created this and it's not good because it's like, how do you get people out of it?

Because listen, should a 10, 11 year old kid walk into me with a recovery bag with a massage gun, Foam mo You get that? You see it kids carry it around. Oh yeah. I got foam. I'm like, You're 11. Yes. I, I don't understand. But that's what's built in. So if it's built in at 11, how's it gonna change?

John Boruk: It [00:32:00] doesn't. 

Jim Ferris: That's you can't, So you're part of the, but you're creating this. Yeah. And that's all here. It's all mental. 

John Boruk: But you work with these kids in Jamaica, you see their resiliency. Yeah. And I think a lot of that is how good they are. They don't have all these extracurricular stuff the devices that you know.

The iPhone, they don't have any of that stuff. They've got fields.  

Jim Ferris: No polar monitors. There's no nothing, no Fitbits. 

John Boruk: No. Apple Watch to monitor their steps. 

Jim Ferris: They just, and then they walk home barefoot. Yeah. 

John Boruk: Another thing that you did is work with kids in China, 

Jim Ferris: right?

So I was in China 2016 CBA season, and I was there for a August, came home for a couple weeks and through December. And it was a very big learning experience. Like you can go to a place for a week and observe and yada. Say what you want. [00:33:00] But I actually sat there and observed and watched how they did things.

And the best way I can explain it, and it's not trying to be disrespectful, is think of the greatest violin player or musician out there, right? Like a Mozart or something like that. They have a five year old prodigy that can. , Okay, But ask the kid where, get the kid to learn to write their own music.

Can't. It's not there. So for me, going to basketball, I walked in and I watched 15 players do the same. One dribble jump shot, no one missed guard, forward center like shooting. You're like, Wow. 

John Boruk: So it's very mechanical. Yeah. 

Jim Ferris: They don't have trouble shooting. They don't have the ability to look at something and say, That's a one.I'm gonna do a [00:34:00] two or a three. They've run it how they were taught exactly to it. 

John Boruk: That’s interesting because, when I read about youth sports, and one of the things that is deteriorating is the ability to improvise, think on the fly, be creative. And that happens. Just going back to what you said earlier in this podcast going back to just playing.

Not organizing, just playing. Just playing because that's when your improvisation. 

Jim Ferris: It goes to work. I watched it for three, four months and I was like, Ah, I'll give it a week. Let me see if it keeps going. It's the same thing, and it's that's how they're taught. This is what you do. Boom boom.

John Boruk: there's some sports where that's advantageous. Maybe like I'll give you I'll throw something. Gymnastics. Okay. 

Jim Ferris: Gymnastics, yes. Yeah. You have one job, one routine. That's [00:35:00] it. But things that have reactive components. Basketball, soccer. Hockey where you have to re-react to your stimuli.

John Boruk: Yeah. The people around you, the environment.

Jim Ferris:  Yeah. So when I was there in 2016, I had a couple Americans on my team, but like the main player in the league was Jimmer Fredette. 

John Boruk: Oh yeah. Great shooter. Yeah. 

Jim Ferris: Fantastic shot. Green light anywhere he wanted to go, so like he knew I can just do whatever I want. I'll take this jump shot.

John Boruk: Yeah. And that probably explains why to some degree, why South Korea has produced so many great women golfers. Because the golf swing is mechanical. It's over and over again until you've replicated that swing so many times. You're like a machine 

Jim Ferris: Limited variability. What are you dealing with?

You're dealing with grass, you're dealing with wind, and you're dealing with where Pin placement. That's it. Is there a slope? Is [00:36:00] the wind going left or right? , Is it pin high or front? Yeah. And that's why they are meticulous about it. Same as the guys like m and a couple of the can't think of other guy's name off the top of my list, but like they, they pin strike like they are, 

John Boruk: Yeah.

But that's very interesting. What other international things that you have been exposed to? Because it's part of your resume is some of the things that you've done internationally. 

Jim Ferris: I've been with the, I've been with basketball club in Cypress. I've been Germany with clubs doing just like same thing, Observation and Israel.

Was that on the list? I haven't been Israel. Okay. I thought it's right by Cyprus. But no, I haven't been. Oh I have a lot of clients from here to play in those games over there 

John Boruk: 

You look at the NBA over the last 20 years, more and more Europeans like it. It's that's where the trend has been.

When this comes to the [00:37:00] NBA, what are they doing? What are they doing? Developing 

Jim Ferris: develop players, not going on AAU or exposure runs. If you came with me and we tested Luka Donkic, For performance stuff, verticle jump, pro agility. You'd probably look at it and be like, All right, I don't see anything that's like off the chart.

Look how he plays. He knows how to play. Oh, yeah. Can't stop him. Yeah. Can't stop him at all. He's, he has a, an understanding of the game, the flow, and they play it different. They play team basketball over there, and over here has become more independent. So one, I think one of the funniest things experience that I had, not funny, it was tough at the time, but I did NBA Europe in 2006.

We played FC Barcelona, so I think our starting five was [00:38:00] Iverson Weber, D Bear, maybe Korver, Igoudala, Lou Williams, whoever we mixed. And they had Juan Carlos Navarro, who ended up playing in the NBA and up like a couple other guys. And we got to halftime and we looked at the stats sheet and we were just like, our numbers were pretty normal.

Iverson took X amount of shots and this, but we literally landed the day before. So there, there was no like, alright, but if you looked at theirs, everyone took five shots, everyone had two assist. Everyone had three rebounds and it was just, The rotation was more like soccer. Yes. And down bear.

That's what down. Bear called out because, and he was like, I'm at the top of the key. Like I'm never a top the key, but it's just they learned how to play their game. And when it comes over here now, I think our game is gonna be behind in that sense because all we do is iso. [00:39:00] 

John Boruk: It's brutal to watch the game, I grew in the eighties.

Jim Ferris: Iso is incredible. It's incredible what you can do one on one. Like what Harden? You get that shot off. You're like, How? But what comes with it is the next group down in the developmental stage is the IQ. Yeah. You have the ball on the wing eight seconds. You get a, the screen comes from here, what do you do?

Is it really just dribble until one second and shoot it? Or do you see the mismatch on the left wing and the guy cutting? And that's what Luca, that's what those guys see. Dirk, and it's different. It's pro, 

John Boruk: it's Yeah It's like process management, game processing. Yeah. 

Jim Ferris: And they just hold the ball.

John Boruk: It's really cool. AAU good for the game of basketball 

Jim Ferris: to an extent. Okay. Could we limit it? I would hope. [00:40:00] Who's, who is not getting exposed enough? Why does a kid when a, they are a junior in high school, that commits still playing at you? That's why I understand. That's the whole point, right? You made it.

You went Big 10, or you went Ivy League as a junior. Why are you playing junior summer? Going the senior year? Why are you still playing au more exposure for what? Where are you gonna take it?

John Boruk: What are you trying? 

Jim Ferris: Yeah. Yeah. What are you trying to prove? Like the goal was this conference.

I think I can get more. It's like, All right 

John Boruk: Three, three big misconceptions about youth sports and I don't misconceptions, but I'm saying three aspects that, that people think that's the way to do it and they're doing it completely wrong. 

Jim Ferris: You should throw up after every training session.[00:41:00] 

would be one. It's probably the biggest one. Second would be, wait, that's actually preach. I've literally, like if you left me training and you looked like you barely, you're not sweating. Okay. And the parent comes outta the parking lot and goes, Oh, how was your session? And I could be like we improved this and we did this, and this.

And they're like Johnny's not sweating, doesn't look like he did anything. Yeah. And that gets, Yeah. Thrown into it. Okay. Personal beef, what's the skill session? Should a skill session be about what I do from a conditioning side, or it should be about improving the skill And you can name the sport, shooting, passing, dribbling, or whatever, but why does it have to have a Gasser built into it?

And [00:42:00] if you do , you should be communicating with the other people involved. Because if they're going from a skill session to the conditioning coach, Condition coach. I should know, right? Yeah. Because I'm getting brought in to do speed. But the kid just see Gasier for 60 minutes. Yeah. And his recovery was sitting in a car.

It's like, all right, here's why we can't do this at this point. And I'd say the other thing is if there's a third it's just too much play. It's too much like you can. Like soccer, hockey, lacrosse, Like they all have crossovers. You know what I mean? It's the same like continuing sport on a different environment in a different time of year with different things involved.

And it doesn't have to be competitive, right? Like [00:43:00] we have people that play club basketball in college, let them play club in high. Like, why do we have to have whatever, if you wanna play club soccer, why can't we have that in high school? And let the kids just have fun where they just go play versus compete.

Yeah. 

John Boruk: You don't have kids and I'm sure parents are saying, they call you out on that. Ah, they're ready to, That's fine. Yeah. Look. But you've worked with enough kids. When you do have kids, have you already in your mind, developed sort. When I say game plan, what you're gonna do, what you're not going to do, how you're gonna approach it, obviously I think that you're big into, and not being, into sport specification, have them play as much stuff, just enjoy the game.

But if you started playing out that in 

Jim Ferris: your mind, I'm a very relaxed person and I'll let things roll and if I see stuff start to go in a direction where it [00:44:00] shouldn't, then I'll like quietly interject. I don't jump I'm not gonna be like, This is how we're doing it. Boom boom. No it's, I wanna see what the development is and let the kid have a, have a choice.

John Boruk: Yeah. And the emphasis really with this pod, this podcast is sports is such a platform. It's a springboard. To other things in life. Everything being good in the classroom, being a leader, at your school, being a leader at work, if sports produces the next ceo, that I think that sports has done its job Yeah.

As producing that. Because 99.99% of you will never play professionally. 

Jim Ferris: And that's the thing I have with parents. You have an eight to 10 year old kid, and I believe you're doing in the best interest you can do, putting him in, exposed to all this stuff. But [00:45:00] I was rower, like rowing was tough.

Like I rowed on the Schuykill, like it was a six months, like 50 degrees. Yeah. Oof. But now it's like you have a kid that has, they had to wake up at six. They gotta get to school. They have a, they go shoot or do skill stuff before they go to school. They have after school practice, they go to AAU, they come to someone like me.

They don't get home until eight o'clock at night. So when you have a 24 7 regimen And then you get to college and you get burnt, or you don't get to college and you get burnt, you don't know what to do with. Because your time has always been structured for you. So like when I train kids and we're work with parents and like I have calendars and I'll send it to you, and it's this is what we're doing today.

This is it. Like some days I'll put in, I'll say, be a kid. And they go, What's that mean? I go [00:46:00] you better figure it out. No agenda. What'd you do? I don't know what to do. That's the whole point. You're supposed to just walk outside and not say get in trouble. But like improvise, I don't know.

John Boruk: Climate tree. Climate tree. Yeah.

Jim Ferris: It’s like you need to be able to just walk out that door and no phone, no coach, no spotlight, no exposure, and just be like all, I'll be home at five. Yeah. Home for dinner, mom. That's how it used to be. There was no questions asked. Just be home for dinner.

John Boruk: People can contact you and you work with you individually, correct? Sure. What's the website?

Jim Ferris: Jim ferris.com. Gym, Play on words, 

John Boruk: gym ferris.com. Clever. Very well. Very . Clever. Do you have a favorite sport? 

Jim Ferris: Baseball was a up, but basketball and football, like I, I'm all major sports.

Yeah. I'm a big golf guy now. You're a [00:47:00] big what? Golf guy. 

John Boruk: Golf guy? Yeah. Okay. A hack. That's okay. Go start somewhere. I gotta, You gotta start somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. But you get out there and you enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. All, so jim ferris.com. A lot of good information. And look, I'm sure that if anybody wants to.

Just tap into your expertise. There's, or yell at me, or, or yell at you. Yeah. You're a laid back guy. I could . Jim, thanks so much. Thank you for being on. We always into our show once again. Here's our quote of the day attentional athletes. Nobody, and I repeat, nobody should have to continue to remind you over and over again to practice.

If your dream is to play at the highest level, put in the work. Or change your dream. A reminder, please subscribe to us wherever you listen. Spotify, Google Apple Podcasts. We greatly appreciate it. Thanks to all of you. Thanks to Jim. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.