John Boruk  0:05  
All right, hello again, welcome to the podcast that deals directly with the challenges of youth sports and how we can improve the overall experience for everyone. Thanks for joining us if this is your first time, thanks for checking us out. If you're a returning listener, it's great to have you back as always, either way, we'd love to, if you could subscribe to us, leave us a review as well, that will certainly help us out in the long run, help us move up the chart and get us notice get other people involved. So this episode is gonna be really cool and really special because as you know, this is the time of the year that I get really excited about Stanley Cup playoffs, you get to see parents and kids dreams realize for those who who grew up wanting to be an NHL professional and a Stanley Cup champion, and all the work the effort, the sacrifice that goes into that. And it's such a battle of attrition when you get into the NHL playoffs, but let's take a step back from that. And, you know, if you're out there and you have a child that maybe they're a minor, maybe they're at the sport level and you want to raise and develop a college hockey player. 

Well guess what I have the perfect family in studio to talk about just that Jim and Andrea McMenamin out from Collegeville, Pennsylvania. Raise two sons Colton and Connor and Connor just recently graduated from Penn State University with a degree in Finance after playing for the Nittany Lions. And now he's off to we'll talk about his journey his path, as now he's off to the University of Minnesota Duluth to play out I believe, his fifth year which is going to be kind of cool. But Jim Andrew, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you guys. And finally I know we've been scheduling this for a couple months and Andrew has helped facilitate this but it's great to finally guys have have you in studio. Thanks for having us. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's let's get into this and and two boys that have played collegiate hockey, your oldest son, Colton, I believe. I think 27 Now play Division Three at Stevenson University. And we've just talked briefly about Connor, who has played at Penn State law a different road for both of them. But how did they get started? Because I don't know I? First off mom, I think we should make it known was a four year softball player at the University of Delaware, Delaware. So you had the college experience and you're an athlete. Jim, I don't know if you ever played No, but but how? Yeah, so how did the boys sort of gravitate towards hockey?

JimMcMenamin  2:40  
 Well, we actually we did the the T ball, the soccer the flag football route. And they every time we said, hey, it's time to go to practice, they wind complained. Right. So we actually had my older son sign up for roller hockey to YMCA because he was always rollerblading around the street.

He goes over and thoroughly enjoys that and then decides wants to try ice hockey while we live close to oaks and there's a rink right there. And they have a cross ICE program. So we sign them up for that.

How old was he? He was seven. Okay, yeah, ironically started a little bit late compared to most other kids.

Got into got into ice hockey. And the practices were like getting up at five o'clock in the morning. Well, not a complaint. By 530 He was the first one in the car heading out the door, getting ready to go over to the rink was excited about it. So that's kind of how that got started. As far as ice hockey goes. He never complained about practice. We'll always wanted to be on the ice and we kind of kind of grabbed Connor and took him along for the ride as well. And he became a rink right just watching brother. So they dabbled in a lot of different sports. Andrea, where they played? It's funny listening. They would complain about practice. That's kind of the, to me the first sense that you're not all that passionate, or maybe we need to try something else. Right? Yep.

Andrea McMenamin  4:06  
 The only other sport that they both really didn't mind was the cross. They actually both and it's very similar, you know, to hockey. But they hit him with sticks and I get it. Yeah, right.

But I really outside of hockey. I mean, that's all I really wanted to do. They both played some lacrosse Colton played a couple other sports. Ironically, Connor played some baseball in high school because you have to play three sports. But never complaint when it came to getting up for practice or going hockey or making that travel. There was never an issue with them. 

John Boruk  4:40  
Did you realize when you got started the the time the commitment obviously, you probably look back at your bank account realize the money that was spent between equipment and tournaments and like I say it's for any family who's unfamiliar with it you can expect to spend between two Wishon equipment

then travel somewhere in the neighborhood in the early stages of 10 to $15,000. He's really easily correct. And that's per child, per child. Right? Right. Right. Yeah, per child. Did you realize when you got started, how the depth? And how much involvement it was gonna take? No, no, we did we, we we had a huge huge learning curve with my older son.

JimMcMenamin  5:26  
We sign off for different clinics and programs and skating lessons and all that sort of stuff. And this was all at the

Unknown Speaker  5:34  
the a level wasn't even a double A or triple A and the amount of commitment was was big for that level. The amount of travel that was done the the expense of things. So yeah, it was a huge learning curve with with my older son. 

John Boruk  5:49  
Was he sort of the guinea pig for Connor, like, Did you were you able to figure things out? Having Colton go through it first. And then it made it that much easier? Or you knew what the process was? What as Connor started to come through, actually, yeah, we did.

Andrea McMenamin  6:07  
With Colton, you know, we would give him the opportunity. He was like, hey, you know, summer tournament, they want you to play Do you want to play? He's like, Nah, I want to have my summer or, you know, he was into a lot of other stuff. Like he just rollerblading. I mean, he played he wanted to be with his neighborhood buddies, right? So we were like, okay, and then we learned as Connor got into it, which things we absolutely had to do. It was like, oh, no, he's got to do that. And we didn't know that with Colton. You know, where and we always ask Connor and Connors answer was always yes, I want to do it. But we didn't know the importance of some of the clinics or some of the tournaments that Colton should have been involved in. As we did when Connor came up, it was a much different process when Connor came up, because it was it was a learning curve. You know, and we figured we figured that out. We were fortunate. The one thing along the whole journey was the people that we've met. Yes. And Colton had some really, really good friends that he played with. And as did Connor, you know, they started out together. And so we kind of moved along together. And we would learn from each other also, which tournaments we had to do or which clinics we had to send them to which rank they needed to be at, you know, they have to play in districts that they have to play and various events, and was Connor, we knew that we learned, yep, you gotta be in that one. Colton. We didn't really know all those things when he went through it. So yeah, you by that time by the time Connor and there's about there's a three year age difference. Yeah. Between the two boys.

John Boruk  7:39  
You were served in you in the United States Marine Corps? Yes. Your father was in the Marine Corps. Yes. You have a father with military background. So there was a lot there's a lot of military background in this family. How much of that was instituted in terms of discipline, structure, organization, all of that. Did you put it as you guys are? snickering Yeah, I'm old school.

did, okay. Now,

Unknown Speaker  8:13  
I get people who listen to this from all over. So when you say old school, detail exactly what old school means to you. Because, you know, the, we're going old, old and now the newer school is something that's old school can't really relate to Right. 

JimMcMenamin  8:30  
Um, for me, the biggest thing I wanted from my kids was, I didn't need them to like me. I wanted them to respect us. That was huge. I wanted them to respect each other, you know, respect themselves. That was that was a big driven force for me. You know, whether it be the military or my career, it was just, I'd rather have that. Because I think that determines your character. I've always said to them, you know, it's, it's, it's not if you get knocked down, it's how you get back up. That was that was big, you know, the old she you know, look somebody in the eye, shake their hand, tell them who introduce yourself that type of thing. So, from that standpoint, I'm old school and I just, you know, if you're going to dedicate yourself to something, dedicate yourself to something don't just you know, man, do it half yeah, as I go, yeah.

I'm sure that'll get bleeped out.

John Boruk  9:31  
Keep that

JimMcMenamin  9:34  
yeah, so you know, that's you're gonna do something do it 100% If you're if and if you're not having fun doing it, don't do it at all. That's one thing I found with both kids that you know you especially when when it came to the practices when it came to the games if there if there if you didn't, like you know, don't kick in a soccer ball. If you didn't like playing flag football, don't do it. Go have fun. You know, I think you'll have a better time doing something that you'd like to do. And you can dedicate yourself to it, because you're having fun. So yeah, that's to me, I was driven that way as well.

John Boruk  10:08  
 I think it's very important that you have parents who are on the same page when it comes to how are we going to manage expectations? How are we going to set the guidelines, the boundaries? Where you both on board? And I'll direct this question to you, Andrea, in terms of look, you know, he's he served in the Marines. Maybe he could have a drill sergeant aspect, I don't know, but was on a lot of that discussed. And did you have this pretty much the same template in terms of how you wanted to raise your boys? 

Andrea McMenamin  10:42  
Yeah, I think we did. Tim was probably a little more direct than I was. But the boys will tell you, they they learned at a certain age, I think there's that little bit of not fear that kids should have in regards to their parents. But like Jim said, that respect, like they know the expectations of when they're supposed to do something like if your job was to take out the trash. Don't tell me you're gonna do it tomorrow, just get it done in the timeframe that you're supposed to get it done in. So we were pretty much on the same page. I used to tell the kids, I don't want school calling me if you're not bleeding, dying or throwing up school better never call. And on the first day of school, you know, it was like, be polite. Do your best. That's all we could ask for. So we were as much as we were laid back. He was a little bit more directs. Sometimes we played good cop, bad cop, I think which happens in all families. But yeah, I think we were on the same page commitment was really important. Like if you're going to join something, and you find out that you get started and you don't like it, that's fine, but you got to finish it. Yes. Like that's important. You got to finish it, you're just not going to quit halfway through because you're gonna, you're gonna let down yourself, but you're gonna let down other people that were relying on you for whatever that was. So that was a big thing for me was the commitment when they decided to do all this. 

John Boruk  11:59  
Jim, did you do you think did you think that your boys feared you at all? Just a little bit, you know, they don't want to have to deal with dad's wrath. And sometimes I do believe and I think that fear can be a motivating factor, right? 

JimMcMenamin  12:11  
It for my older son, no fear, no fear whatsoever. I'm challenged. He was he would challenge him all the time. And I was harder on him than Connor was. And I always looked at Connor after I yelled at Colton. I said, Hey, I said, Learn from your brother's mistakes. So I think Connor kind of picked up on that. Like, I don't want to mess with that. There was one time Colton would do a few things. And you know, I'd get on him about it. Then Connor went to school one day, got on the bus. We weren't home at the time. We were both at work. And I came home the garage door was open. And I looked at Connor Susie got off the bus and came to me and I said, Did you leave the garage door open? Well, of course I had that demeanor on my face. And he was like, Oh, your comps? And he looked at me goes. Yeah, I did. Okay, don't let it do it again. Or don't let it happen again. I walked in the house. He stood there for a couple of minutes dumbfounded that I responded that way. But my driving force behind that was was honesty. Be honest. You know, own what you do. Don't cover it up. Don't blame somebody else. You're the person you're responsible for is the man in the mirror. And these kids are they live by that? That's how I was raised that you're responsible for everything you do. So older son, no, no, no fear of me. We battled a few times. But Connor I think picked up on it. 

Andrea McMenamin  13:43  
He knew what he watched. He knew what he could do what he couldn't do. And he, you know, he's like, okay, he just got Yeah, I'm not going to do that kind of thing. Yes. 

John Boruk  13:53  
But what were the boys close? Did they have a really tight relationship? Despite the age difference? 

Andrea McMenamin  14:00  
They do now, they are truly the best of friends. They are each other's number one fan. That's great.

Unknown Speaker  14:08  
You know, early on, like middle school age, like it was it was a little back and forth.

John Boruk  14:12  
 Boy, I believe is always the toughest. They're starting to hit puberty thing. They're going through those chemical changes in their bodies, you know, they start to test the waters. Right. You know, that can be challenging as parents. Yeah, you get to middle school.

Andrea McMenamin  14:27  
 But I mean, outside of that they battled when they were younger, and definitely did. They're a little competitive. They still to this day, they do compete, but it's more of a fun competition between them. But there's times where they'll go at each other. You know, who's better, whose school was better, whose word work out harder, but ultimately they are. They are the best of friends and they support each other. They text each other no matter what's going on. You know, they'll get on each other if they feel the other one hasn't done, worked hard enough or didn't have good game what they could do better. So it is really fun to watch. As probably the most important thing to me is their relationship. Yeah. 

JimMcMenamin  15:07  
Which which is developed tremendously over the years when they were when they were younger. That we had a car, I was having a conversation with my older son in the kitchen. My old younger son Connor was upstairs and Andrew was up in the bedroom. And Colton and I were kind of going back and forth with one another about Connor, and his workout ethic, his drive and his you know, his interest in things. And Connor would Connor is a video gamer, he loves his video games. And Colton was not that way. He was a pushup, situp go to the gym, he was a gym rat. And he's Michael Colton saw the the skill level in Connor. And he just wanted him to develop that get better, be stronger, be faster, be quicker, you know, all those all those things that he, you know, just the finite differences between the two. He wanted him to excel with that. And he wanted to work out more. And we kind of got into a shouting match to the point where she calls, she calls on the phone upstairs says Connor can hear you I said good. I want him to hear what I'm talking about with Colton. I said I want him to understand, it's like, dude, these kids marched to the beat of a different drum. And that's important for both of them to recognize that, hey, there's, there's paths to different things. There's also the same path that you can take to get to the same thing.

Unknown Speaker  16:36  
Each of them took different paths to get to get what they wanted. And, you know, I think they've they've learned that over time. They've grown from that over time. And I think they're better and stronger for it. 

John Boruk  16:50  
So going back to that conversation was Colton challenging you to, to sort of pick Connor up to say, you know, look, this is how I do things. And he's got so much potential, you know, you need to ride them or stay on or it's, I, I find it fascinating, you know that one brother observed something. And he's, he's almost has a, like parental advice or wants to get that parental advice through you. Right? 

JimMcMenamin  17:19  
That's, that's kind of what it was. But he was he would, he would break cornerstones on mercifully for him to go to the gym for him to work out for him to not, you know, play video games. And it was it was frustrating as us as for parents to see that, that kind of frustration with my older son towards my younger son. And, you know, we kind of had to nip that in the bud, because that's what I said to him. I said, Listen, I said, You guys are taken to different paths. I said, you're marching to the beat of a different drum. I said, he's not you. You know, he's his own is he's an individual just let him take his bath. I said, we'll get them there.

Andrea McMenamin  17:58  
Yeah, Connor did want to do everything they Colton did, right. Except I think the biggest thing was their workout ethic at the time. But if you ask Connor, he wanted to emulate everything that Colton did, since he was a little kid, a kid looked up to Colton. So it's interesting, I have two boys.

John Boruk  18:19  
But four or five years age difference, and how they came up as little kids and just their viewing habits. You know, the oldest kid actually watched television, my younger son doesn't watch any television in the sense that the way that technology has, like changed things, and you really have to keep as parents a close eye and monitor what they're seeing how much they're seeing all of that. So I don't know, you know, when, as Connor, younger the boys, and if they had cell phones and you know and what they were allowed to do with it? How did you manage all of that? You know, because you said Connor was sort of a video game and there's this video i i see it this video gaming stuff is so addictive, that it can just completely, they get so caught up in this and that's all they want to do sometimes, entire day, and I hate it. That's why I like sports is to get them away if I can get them on a practice field that not so much I'm trying to develop a collegiate or professional athlete, but I'm having them do something productive besides play on video games. 

Andrea McMenamin  19:26  
Yeah, yeah, the video game thing was we regulated it pretty much Connor didn't do it. As much as probably some of the other kids it was that in between time, you know from playing outside or coming home from practice. Colton was always let's go, let's go. Let's go. He always wanted to be active and to be doing something and there's just days where Connor would look at me like, No, I want to do that right now. But the video games really weren't something that got in the way we limited that time during you know, school days. And on the weekends. They weren't home. They didn't have time to do it. Yeah. Because we are were at a tournament where they were traveling or somewhere. So it really never got in the way I think I think older is being in college, they probably play video games, you know now, more than they did back then. Cell phones, Colton had a cell phone. Probably what 12 H 12 The old flip phone okay kind of Conner got his by default as we you know, and that's where the child but it was, he only had our numbers in it and Colton and that was it. And so he couldn't call or do anything else on his phone because he got it a little bit younger than Colton did. Okay. But, um, but they were pretty limited. 

John Boruk  20:43  
Yeah, so I haven't really we haven't explained too much into Connors path. But here's here's how. So you guys started with the Philadelphia Jr. Flyers. Yeah. Which is interesting. My son played a season with Philadelphia Jr. Flyers great organization. They're in West Chester, Pennsylvania.

But left home at the age of 14 to go play after Bantam major to play at Shattuck. St. Mary's Correct. Yes, yeah. So I think three years at Shattuck. St. Mary's, then went on to play in the USHL for three more years. Not very many families have their child leave leave at the age of 13 or 14. No,

JimMcMenamin  21:25  
No, no. We a friend of ours.

John Boruk  21:31  
Before it before you get started just want to explain to people who aren't familiar with Shattuck St. Mary's. It is the premier high school or or middle school place to play Sidney Crosby, Nathan MacKinnon, Jonathan Toews have all gone to Shattuck St. Mary's, so to receive an invitation like that. I don't care what age your child is playing. You got to give it serious consideration even if that means I'm not going to see my child for the majority of seven or eight months. Go ahead. 

JimMcMenamin  22:02  
Yeah, he we were playing with one of Congress best friend's Josh Maniscalco. Josh got picked up by Shattuck St. Mary's, and he was being he was accepted there. So we were of course hoping for Connor to go on to the next level, and lo and behold, about a month later, we got a call for Connor to come out to Shattuck St. Mary's. So we sent him out there we went with him for his try out has 102 degree fever, we pumped him full of Tylenol thrown with Gatorade and put them on the ice. And when the practice was over, they're like, Yeah, we want them. So we looked at financial things first, to see if we could even afford it. And with some help, we were able to do that, or brother-in-law, sister law. 

Andrea McMenamin  23:00  
We can also say that I can talk about their relationship here too, because with Colton, Colton was awesome private school. He was playing for the Hills school.

John Boruk  23:11  
Pottstown Yes. And for people who are not familiar with Pottstown, it's the home of Yuengling beer. So but actually, the father of a kid who played with my son, Piers, now is the head athletic director and the head of the hockey program at the Hill School. Okay. Yeah. So, but that's a very good institution to go to as well. Yeah. 

Andrea McMenamin  23:30  
So Colton was going to school there playing hockey there. And he actually came to us. And he said, I will go back to public school, Connor has to go to Shattuck, and that just, you know, melts your heart as a parent. Right? And we told him, You don't worry about it. You earned your right to be where you are. We'll figure it out. And we were fortunate.

John Boruk  23:55  
How are we gonna figure this out? Exactly. Exactly.

JimMcMenamin  23:59  
So yeah, so we sent him in. Andrew looked at me funny. She's like, upset as you know, as a mom would be and I just looked at I said he's going to go, he has to go. So out he went and he said 

John Boruk  24:21  
You You said she looked at you upset. Why were you upset? 

Andrea McMenamin  24:25  
Because he was like my buddy. He a Conor Conor like, okay, because, like if I needed to go to the mall and said, you want to go to the mall, he'd be like, okay, like, he was like my sidekick. 

John Boruk  24:34  
Yes. I feel like that every kid kid is a sidekick to a certain parent. 

Andrea McMenamin  24:39  
Yeah. Well, when we did the traveling when the kids were young, and we had to split it up, I would say that probably the majority of the time you were with Colton. Correct. And I was with Connor and we were fortunate because, you know, Connor started at three. So he was at the Valley Forge, colonials, and we met some families and we met you know, that's where he met his best friend Josh. And when Josh got accepted to Shattuck, we had no idea. You know, when we can we we plan to continue playing with the Jr. Flyers. And then when we got that call, it was like, wow. Okay, so the cool aspect of him going to Shattuck was that he knew somebody that was going with somebody. So that was the one piece that calmed me down a little bit. And to further that, he also wound up being there with about four or five guys that always played on tournament teams together that they knew, you know, we knew their families through that aspect. But so that was a relief knowing that he was going there being with kids that he knew. But it's so was Yeah. Ta

John Boruk  25:41  
wrenching. Yeah. And at the age of 14. But so anyway, he leaves it goes to Shattuck St. Mary's, at that time, was that good? Did you feel like that this is what Connor needed in terms of real focus and structure and, and he was living on campus. That's how it works. You live on campus? And they have pretty much your day all lined up for you.

JimMcMenamin  26:06  
I think you kind of realize, obviously, this being the second time around, you know, having gone through it with Colton, you realize that based on their skill level based on their abilities. Of course, like you said, everybody wants to have their kid in the NHL. It's a very fine funnel at the very end, to get to that level. But when you recognize something in your kid, and other people recognize that as well. And you've gotten to the point that the program you're at, can't do any more for you. It's time to move on to the next level. So Shattuck was that for us, or I should say for Connor, not for us for for Connor. And he did three years there, and then it kind of got to the same point in time with Shattock, where Connor needed to move to the next level. Then he went to the USHL. So yeah, as a parent, having seen it, having been educated, you know, from the hockey standpoint with with having two kids have gone through it and what you see, he was ready for the next level. So yeah, for him to go out to Shattuck it was huge for him. Was 

Andrea McMenamin  27:17  
He had great supports Yeah, I mean, the Junior Flyers were absolutely wonderful to him when he played there. And you know, the coaches were great. Our friends, the families that, you know, we had known since he was younger. So just having all of that, to push him to the next level was, was great. Yeah, they every every team that he's gone through and left or every program that he's going through and left was very understanding very supportive. Yeah, of recognizing what needed to be done at his level. 

John Boruk  27:50  
At what point with Connor Did you realize that he's pretty special and he's, you know, an exceptional hockey player. And we got to find a way to to continue to challenge him.

Andrea McMenamin  28:05  
I think that just kind of came along with the process, I think, the outside, you know, getting noticed by people at Shattock. Let us know that. Wow. Okay, he's got something happened in here. You know, when when he was with the Junior Flyers, they had a great team, his birth year actually is a very strong hockey year. Tons of talent at that year, tons of kids that, you know, from when he was little, who took the same kind of path is just different, different terms here and there. But I think overall, I think just that acknowledging your 1999. 1999 birth years is so much talent, yeah, with all the kids. But I think being recognized, you know, just when people are letting us know that, you know, he should be a nice tournament or, you know, we'd like him to play on this team. I think it was more of, you know, when he got drafted into the USHL. It was like, wow, okay, this was kind of really cool.

Unknown Speaker  29:06  
So, I think it was more of him getting that recognition from different entities and different teams and different levels that really brought that to our attention. You know, when somebody says, Hey, you have to get your kid to this tournament this weekend. They're expecting to seehim. It's like, wow, okay. Figure that out. We'll get them here. Yeah, another thing that, uh, you walk through the door and they go Hey, where's Where's Connor? Where's where's Josh? You know, they were wondering where they were. And it's we're like,

Andrea McMenamin  29:34  
they would always laugh because Connors, big thing was, he'd have these Hodie dough games where, you know, he was just out there. And I didn't think he'd be giving his best effort. So I called him hodie dough games. And there's times where he would come out of the locker room. And I would tell one of the other moms on in my car just because it was kind of like what Colton noticed early on. Sometimes you'd have these games where it's like, oh my god, what were you doing? Just out there floating around. And then you'd have these other games where you wash the plane, you're like, wow, like he could he could create how good he was

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